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	<title>Comments on: Green Party Presidential Primaries</title>
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		<title>By: Phil Sawyer</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/02/06/green-party-presidential-primaries/comment-page-1/#comment-234538</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Sawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 03:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/02/06/green-party-presidential-primaries/#comment-234538</guid>
		<description>Twice in the past few days, I attempted to enter the same (approximate) message in this section.  For some reason, it did not take either time and I am not going to try again on this particular item.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Twice in the past few days, I attempted to enter the same (approximate) message in this section.  For some reason, it did not take either time and I am not going to try again on this particular item.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Z</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/02/06/green-party-presidential-primaries/comment-page-1/#comment-232130</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 23:34:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/02/06/green-party-presidential-primaries/#comment-232130</guid>
		<description>David: You ask me how many of my friends and co-workers are familiar with Nader&#039;s work? My answer is just what the media tells them. And that proves my point. Nobody is going to go out and bother to educate themselves on Nader. A person can run so many times before he just becomes a joke to the people outside of his party. Another example that comes to mind is Gus Hall and the Communist Party. When I was much younger, he used to be on every Presidential ballot in New York State without missing one. Someone would say &quot;Hey, guess what? Gus Hall is running again!&quot; And everyone would laugh and joke about him, and that is what Nader is turning into. After the initial publicity, the only publicity he will get is that he split the vote that helped Bush get elected. (I don&#039;t believe that for a minute so don&#039;t bother to argue that with me as that isn&#039;t an issue here.)

So when I say that the Green Party is living in the past if they nominate Nader, I mean that nobody new is going to be drawn into the party to vote for him since there won&#039;t be any positive press coverage. The only people that will vote for him are the ones that have done so in the past. People don&#039;t want to educate themselves about the candidates by doing their own research. They want the media to tell them about the candidates. That&#039;s why people like Biden never had a chance against Hillary. They were far more experienced and were willing to give concrete proposals rather than talk in vague generalities like she does. But the media never concentrated on them so the voters never knew about them. At least with McKinney, even if she does bring baggage  in with her, she&#039;ll get some serious press coverage. Yes, she slapped a cop. And yes, she is a 911 conspiratorialist, although I&#039;m not sure how much that will hurt her as I&#039;m surprised to still find people here and there who believe that the government had something to do with it. And these people aren&#039;t &quot;kooks&quot;. That coverage will invariably bring in some new people to the Green Party which will help it to grow. The Green Party needs to move beyond Nader if it hopes to reach a wider audience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David: You ask me how many of my friends and co-workers are familiar with Nader&#8217;s work? My answer is just what the media tells them. And that proves my point. Nobody is going to go out and bother to educate themselves on Nader. A person can run so many times before he just becomes a joke to the people outside of his party. Another example that comes to mind is Gus Hall and the Communist Party. When I was much younger, he used to be on every Presidential ballot in New York State without missing one. Someone would say &#8220;Hey, guess what? Gus Hall is running again!&#8221; And everyone would laugh and joke about him, and that is what Nader is turning into. After the initial publicity, the only publicity he will get is that he split the vote that helped Bush get elected. (I don&#8217;t believe that for a minute so don&#8217;t bother to argue that with me as that isn&#8217;t an issue here.)</p>
<p>So when I say that the Green Party is living in the past if they nominate Nader, I mean that nobody new is going to be drawn into the party to vote for him since there won&#8217;t be any positive press coverage. The only people that will vote for him are the ones that have done so in the past. People don&#8217;t want to educate themselves about the candidates by doing their own research. They want the media to tell them about the candidates. That&#8217;s why people like Biden never had a chance against Hillary. They were far more experienced and were willing to give concrete proposals rather than talk in vague generalities like she does. But the media never concentrated on them so the voters never knew about them. At least with McKinney, even if she does bring baggage  in with her, she&#8217;ll get some serious press coverage. Yes, she slapped a cop. And yes, she is a 911 conspiratorialist, although I&#8217;m not sure how much that will hurt her as I&#8217;m surprised to still find people here and there who believe that the government had something to do with it. And these people aren&#8217;t &#8220;kooks&#8221;. That coverage will invariably bring in some new people to the Green Party which will help it to grow. The Green Party needs to move beyond Nader if it hopes to reach a wider audience.</p>
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		<title>By: Hoss</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/02/06/green-party-presidential-primaries/comment-page-1/#comment-231042</link>
		<dc:creator>Hoss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 23:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/02/06/green-party-presidential-primaries/#comment-231042</guid>
		<description>I cannot believe the number of people in our party are being taken in by Cynthia McKinney. She&#039;s not a green candidate--she&#039;s an opportunist who lost credibility with her shenanigans in dealing with the media after she embarrassed her state of Georgia by causing a scene at a security checkpoint when she didn&#039;t have her congressional pin on like she should have. She then took the media to task for &quot;prolonging&quot; this story and had the gall to tell a reporter that when she was not seated for an interview, she was &quot;off the record&quot;--even though she had stalked away from the reporter and had left her microphone on. Such a lack of professionalism and an excess of dogmatism won&#039;t help the credibility of the Green Party. I&#039;m embarrassed that the party is even considering her a viable candidate. She will do more harm than good!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cannot believe the number of people in our party are being taken in by Cynthia McKinney. She&#8217;s not a green candidate&#8211;she&#8217;s an opportunist who lost credibility with her shenanigans in dealing with the media after she embarrassed her state of Georgia by causing a scene at a security checkpoint when she didn&#8217;t have her congressional pin on like she should have. She then took the media to task for &#8220;prolonging&#8221; this story and had the gall to tell a reporter that when she was not seated for an interview, she was &#8220;off the record&#8221;&#8211;even though she had stalked away from the reporter and had left her microphone on. Such a lack of professionalism and an excess of dogmatism won&#8217;t help the credibility of the Green Party. I&#8217;m embarrassed that the party is even considering her a viable candidate. She will do more harm than good!</p>
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		<title>By: David Gaines</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/02/06/green-party-presidential-primaries/comment-page-1/#comment-230634</link>
		<dc:creator>David Gaines</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 12:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/02/06/green-party-presidential-primaries/#comment-230634</guid>
		<description>Steve Z:  You admit right off the bat that you&#039;re not affiliated with the Green Party so you&#039;re apparently not aware of how much support there is for Ralph Nader within the GP, far more than in 2004. There is also a faction that is very pro-McKinney and echoes some of your sentiments about Ralph, but my feeling based on what I see within the GP (I&#039;m a member and have been for many years now) is that the nomination is Ralph&#039;s if he wants it. I moderated the GP presidential candidates forum in Washington, D.C. last week and I can assure you that the larger-than-expected turnout was due to the fact that Ralph Nader spoke afterwards (to raise money for the GP&#039;s ballot access efforts).

Incidentally, how familiar are your &quot;friends and co-workers&quot; with the Green Party, Nader&#039;s past campaigns, 3rd party politics, ballot access issues, etc.?

I don&#039;t have any dealbreaking problems with Cynthia McKinney and, in fact, admire &amp; support her activism on behalf of communities that sorely need it (and I also am impressed with the people who have been speaking on her behalf at GP events), but the idea that she&#039;ll get more votes than Nader would is bizarre. She is not anywhere near as well known, has significantly lower name recognition nationwide, and among those out in the general population who do know her, virtually all you will hear is ridicule of either the cop-slapping incident, her 9/11 &quot;alternative theory&quot; activism, or both. That is something the GP needs to think and strategize about should she be the nominee because it would make campaigning for her rather challenging. As I said, those aren&#039;t dealbreakers for me if she&#039;s the nominee, but they&#039;re elements that cannot be ignored.

No one of any public repute has anything close to the stature Ralph Nader has in terms of ceaseless public advocacy on behalf of third party and independent candidates, ballot access, an end to the electoral college, etc. etc.. both during and in between election cycles, through education, public speaking, and thousands of major media appearances as well as numerous lawsuits. This is coming from someone with over thirty years of experience in 3rd party politics (i.e. me). Ralph has virtually singlehandedly put this subject on the map of American political discourse, and that is why only people who are clueless about these issues laugh when the subject of him running for president comes up.

Also, those who follow Nader in the media know that over the past couple of years he has urged several other people to run for president (Bill Moyers and Jim Hightower come to mind) but they&#039;ve all declined. He&#039;s said in interviews many times that the Democrats (or anybody else) is free to take all of his issues away from him; that there&#039;s no proprietary ownership restriction on his ideas. Like Norman Thomas, Nader would LOVE to be made irrelevant by having his ideas implemented by others. He has indicated this time and again on talk shows and in question and answer sessions. But that&#039;s not happening, and no other widely known public figure is stepping into the ring who will carry the same agenda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve Z:  You admit right off the bat that you&#8217;re not affiliated with the Green Party so you&#8217;re apparently not aware of how much support there is for Ralph Nader within the GP, far more than in 2004. There is also a faction that is very pro-McKinney and echoes some of your sentiments about Ralph, but my feeling based on what I see within the GP (I&#8217;m a member and have been for many years now) is that the nomination is Ralph&#8217;s if he wants it. I moderated the GP presidential candidates forum in Washington, D.C. last week and I can assure you that the larger-than-expected turnout was due to the fact that Ralph Nader spoke afterwards (to raise money for the GP&#8217;s ballot access efforts).</p>
<p>Incidentally, how familiar are your &#8220;friends and co-workers&#8221; with the Green Party, Nader&#8217;s past campaigns, 3rd party politics, ballot access issues, etc.?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have any dealbreaking problems with Cynthia McKinney and, in fact, admire &amp; support her activism on behalf of communities that sorely need it (and I also am impressed with the people who have been speaking on her behalf at GP events), but the idea that she&#8217;ll get more votes than Nader would is bizarre. She is not anywhere near as well known, has significantly lower name recognition nationwide, and among those out in the general population who do know her, virtually all you will hear is ridicule of either the cop-slapping incident, her 9/11 &#8220;alternative theory&#8221; activism, or both. That is something the GP needs to think and strategize about should she be the nominee because it would make campaigning for her rather challenging. As I said, those aren&#8217;t dealbreakers for me if she&#8217;s the nominee, but they&#8217;re elements that cannot be ignored.</p>
<p>No one of any public repute has anything close to the stature Ralph Nader has in terms of ceaseless public advocacy on behalf of third party and independent candidates, ballot access, an end to the electoral college, etc. etc.. both during and in between election cycles, through education, public speaking, and thousands of major media appearances as well as numerous lawsuits. This is coming from someone with over thirty years of experience in 3rd party politics (i.e. me). Ralph has virtually singlehandedly put this subject on the map of American political discourse, and that is why only people who are clueless about these issues laugh when the subject of him running for president comes up.</p>
<p>Also, those who follow Nader in the media know that over the past couple of years he has urged several other people to run for president (Bill Moyers and Jim Hightower come to mind) but they&#8217;ve all declined. He&#8217;s said in interviews many times that the Democrats (or anybody else) is free to take all of his issues away from him; that there&#8217;s no proprietary ownership restriction on his ideas. Like Norman Thomas, Nader would LOVE to be made irrelevant by having his ideas implemented by others. He has indicated this time and again on talk shows and in question and answer sessions. But that&#8217;s not happening, and no other widely known public figure is stepping into the ring who will carry the same agenda.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Z</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/02/06/green-party-presidential-primaries/comment-page-1/#comment-230186</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 01:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/02/06/green-party-presidential-primaries/#comment-230186</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not affiliated with the Green Party at all but really can&#039;t see why they would take Nader again. He&#039;s run so many times he&#039;s just a joke now. Sure he gets publicity by the networks. But it&#039;s not the kind of publicity that would translate into votes. When I told my friends and co-workers that he wanted to run again, they just laughed or rolled their eyes upward. McKinney has her problems, but she is a legitimate candidate in that she at least held office before. And yes, Nader beat her in California. But at this stage, it&#039;s just because of name recognition. Over the long haul, she&#039;ll pull in more voters than Nader ever would since the press would give her better coverage. With Nader, the press might have been all over him when he announced his candidacy, but would soon ignore him since he has nothing new to say. It will be harder for the press to ignore McKinney in the long run, as long as she takes the race seriously, if only because she is a woman and black. If the Green Party picks McKinney, it shows their moving into the future. If they pick Nader, it shows they are living in the past.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not affiliated with the Green Party at all but really can&#8217;t see why they would take Nader again. He&#8217;s run so many times he&#8217;s just a joke now. Sure he gets publicity by the networks. But it&#8217;s not the kind of publicity that would translate into votes. When I told my friends and co-workers that he wanted to run again, they just laughed or rolled their eyes upward. McKinney has her problems, but she is a legitimate candidate in that she at least held office before. And yes, Nader beat her in California. But at this stage, it&#8217;s just because of name recognition. Over the long haul, she&#8217;ll pull in more voters than Nader ever would since the press would give her better coverage. With Nader, the press might have been all over him when he announced his candidacy, but would soon ignore him since he has nothing new to say. It will be harder for the press to ignore McKinney in the long run, as long as she takes the race seriously, if only because she is a woman and black. If the Green Party picks McKinney, it shows their moving into the future. If they pick Nader, it shows they are living in the past.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Broy</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/02/06/green-party-presidential-primaries/comment-page-1/#comment-230167</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Broy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/02/06/green-party-presidential-primaries/#comment-230167</guid>
		<description>in Tazewell county,Illinois the election judges were asking people if they wanted a democrat or Republican Ballot, I had to remind them there were 5 ballots,including the green party,and constitution Party in my district,I made a formal complaint to my County Clerk</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in Tazewell county,Illinois the election judges were asking people if they wanted a democrat or Republican Ballot, I had to remind them there were 5 ballots,including the green party,and constitution Party in my district,I made a formal complaint to my County Clerk</p>
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		<title>By: Scott West</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/02/06/green-party-presidential-primaries/comment-page-1/#comment-229682</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott West</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 16:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/02/06/green-party-presidential-primaries/#comment-229682</guid>
		<description>How will the delegates be assigned from the Green primaries.  Are they proportional, winner-take-all or advisory?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How will the delegates be assigned from the Green primaries.  Are they proportional, winner-take-all or advisory?</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/02/06/green-party-presidential-primaries/comment-page-1/#comment-229017</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 03:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/02/06/green-party-presidential-primaries/#comment-229017</guid>
		<description>Hillary and Obama are corporate Democrats who need a push from Nader to remember the progressive side of Green. Hopefully, progressives will not cave as they did in 2004 while the Democrats fought Nader&#039;s ballot access and your right to vote for him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hillary and Obama are corporate Democrats who need a push from Nader to remember the progressive side of Green. Hopefully, progressives will not cave as they did in 2004 while the Democrats fought Nader&#8217;s ballot access and your right to vote for him.</p>
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		<title>By: NE</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/02/06/green-party-presidential-primaries/comment-page-1/#comment-229003</link>
		<dc:creator>NE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 02:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/02/06/green-party-presidential-primaries/#comment-229003</guid>
		<description>Cynthia McKinney will get far more votes in the general election than &quot;safe state strategy -- please do not vote for me!&quot; David Cobb did. Count on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cynthia McKinney will get far more votes in the general election than &#8220;safe state strategy &#8212; please do not vote for me!&#8221; David Cobb did. Count on it.</p>
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		<title>By: Chip</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/02/06/green-party-presidential-primaries/comment-page-1/#comment-228982</link>
		<dc:creator>Chip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 01:23:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/02/06/green-party-presidential-primaries/#comment-228982</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve seen the Illinois results in the comments here and several other places, but does anyone here have the MA results?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve seen the Illinois results in the comments here and several other places, but does anyone here have the MA results?</p>
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