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	<title>Comments on: Vermont Governor Vetoes National Popular Vote Plan Bill</title>
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		<title>By: Demo Rep</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/05/16/vermont-governor-vetoes-national-popular-vote-plan-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-374620</link>
		<dc:creator>Demo Rep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 03:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=3316#comment-374620</guid>
		<description>#25 How many of the 18 States with voter petitions for State constitutional amendments have blown up ???

How many EVIL monarchies and oligarchies have blown up -- by domestic revolts and/or foreign wars -- in 6,000 plus years ???

Gee - why did the American colony folks in 1773-1776 revolt against the British monarchy- oligarchy ??? 

REAL Democracy NOW -- via 100 percent proportional representation -- regardless of New Age math and history MORONS -- akin to ignorant EVIL BARBARIANS from pre-history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#25 How many of the 18 States with voter petitions for State constitutional amendments have blown up ???</p>
<p>How many EVIL monarchies and oligarchies have blown up &#8212; by domestic revolts and/or foreign wars &#8212; in 6,000 plus years ???</p>
<p>Gee &#8211; why did the American colony folks in 1773-1776 revolt against the British monarchy- oligarchy ??? </p>
<p>REAL Democracy NOW &#8212; via 100 percent proportional representation &#8212; regardless of New Age math and history MORONS &#8212; akin to ignorant EVIL BARBARIANS from pre-history.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Rankin</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/05/16/vermont-governor-vetoes-national-popular-vote-plan-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-374386</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Rankin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 01:32:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=3316#comment-374386</guid>
		<description>Thomas DiLorenzo wrote a great piece about the case for repealing the 17th Amendment, which is available on the Web.

I agree with him, but it&#039;s not going to happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas DiLorenzo wrote a great piece about the case for repealing the 17th Amendment, which is available on the Web.</p>
<p>I agree with him, but it&#8217;s not going to happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Broy</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/05/16/vermont-governor-vetoes-national-popular-vote-plan-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-374135</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Broy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 22:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=3316#comment-374135</guid>
		<description>Re:22 you are right to a degree,we are a Constitutional democracy NOW,because of the 17th amendment,the Founding fathers BELIEVED IN and CREATED a Constitutional Republic,the 17th amendment to the constitution was the start of our downfall from a republic,which is why it needs repealed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re:22 you are right to a degree,we are a Constitutional democracy NOW,because of the 17th amendment,the Founding fathers BELIEVED IN and CREATED a Constitutional Republic,the 17th amendment to the constitution was the start of our downfall from a republic,which is why it needs repealed.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim R</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/05/16/vermont-governor-vetoes-national-popular-vote-plan-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-373370</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 05:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=3316#comment-373370</guid>
		<description>Re: #22

Election of electors from congressional districts was atypical.  Generally, when electors were chosen by popular vote, but not statewide popular vote, they were chosen from electoral districts specifically delineated for that purpose.  In some cases, these were single member districts, in other cases multi-member.

In almost all the cases where the electors were chosen from congressional districts, the additional 2 electors were not chosen by by statewide vote, being chosen either by the legislature, or in one case by the electors chosen from congressional districts.

Maine and Nebraska are anomalies, not only because they elect electors by congressional district, but also because they elect two electors by statewide vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: #22</p>
<p>Election of electors from congressional districts was atypical.  Generally, when electors were chosen by popular vote, but not statewide popular vote, they were chosen from electoral districts specifically delineated for that purpose.  In some cases, these were single member districts, in other cases multi-member.</p>
<p>In almost all the cases where the electors were chosen from congressional districts, the additional 2 electors were not chosen by by statewide vote, being chosen either by the legislature, or in one case by the electors chosen from congressional districts.</p>
<p>Maine and Nebraska are anomalies, not only because they elect electors by congressional district, but also because they elect two electors by statewide vote.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Rankin</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/05/16/vermont-governor-vetoes-national-popular-vote-plan-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-372862</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Rankin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 19:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=3316#comment-372862</guid>
		<description>Re #21, paragraph three:

&quot;Democracy... while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There was never a democracy that did not commit suicide.&quot; -- John Adams 

&quot;A democracy is a volcano which conceals the fiery materials of its own destruction. These will produce an eruption and carry desolation in their way.&quot; -- Fisher Ames, known as one of America&#039;s &quot;forgotten&quot; Founding Fathers 

&quot;Democracy is the most vile form of government... democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention: have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property: and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.&quot; -- James Madison, who wrote the Constitution</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #21, paragraph three:</p>
<p>&#8220;Democracy&#8230; while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There was never a democracy that did not commit suicide.&#8221; &#8212; John Adams </p>
<p>&#8220;A democracy is a volcano which conceals the fiery materials of its own destruction. These will produce an eruption and carry desolation in their way.&#8221; &#8212; Fisher Ames, known as one of America&#8217;s &#8220;forgotten&#8221; Founding Fathers </p>
<p>&#8220;Democracy is the most vile form of government&#8230; democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention: have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property: and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.&#8221; &#8212; James Madison, who wrote the Constitution</p>
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		<title>By: Demo Rep</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/05/16/vermont-governor-vetoes-national-popular-vote-plan-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-372839</link>
		<dc:creator>Demo Rep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 18:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=3316#comment-372839</guid>
		<description>Democracy = Majority Rule - direct or indirect

monarchy = minority rule by 1 - direct or indirect

oligarchy = minority rule by 2 or more - direct or indirect

Nothing more and nothing less.

Monarchy regimes are de facto oligarchies since even the most EVIL monarch needs stooges to do the dirty work -- killing, enslaving, etc. -- Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, etc.

The U.S.A. has been an EVIL and VICIOUS gerrymander oligarchy since day 1.

ALL State regimes are EVIL and VICIOUS gerrymander oligarchies since day 1.

State Democracy exceptions -- when ALL the Electors are voting on a statewide ballot question.

This is the New Dark Age of massive ignorance about BASIC stuff.   

See the armies of young MORONS on Jay Leno - Jaywalking All Stars [of brain dead ignorance].

How about a quite possible 269-269 TIE in the timebomb Electoral College in Nov. 2008 --- making the 2000 Bush v. Gore stuff in Florida seem trivial by comparison ???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Democracy = Majority Rule &#8211; direct or indirect</p>
<p>monarchy = minority rule by 1 &#8211; direct or indirect</p>
<p>oligarchy = minority rule by 2 or more &#8211; direct or indirect</p>
<p>Nothing more and nothing less.</p>
<p>Monarchy regimes are de facto oligarchies since even the most EVIL monarch needs stooges to do the dirty work &#8212; killing, enslaving, etc. &#8212; Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, etc.</p>
<p>The U.S.A. has been an EVIL and VICIOUS gerrymander oligarchy since day 1.</p>
<p>ALL State regimes are EVIL and VICIOUS gerrymander oligarchies since day 1.</p>
<p>State Democracy exceptions &#8212; when ALL the Electors are voting on a statewide ballot question.</p>
<p>This is the New Dark Age of massive ignorance about BASIC stuff.   </p>
<p>See the armies of young MORONS on Jay Leno &#8211; Jaywalking All Stars [of brain dead ignorance].</p>
<p>How about a quite possible 269-269 TIE in the timebomb Electoral College in Nov. 2008 &#8212; making the 2000 Bush v. Gore stuff in Florida seem trivial by comparison ???</p>
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		<title>By: Franklin</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/05/16/vermont-governor-vetoes-national-popular-vote-plan-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-372797</link>
		<dc:creator>Franklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 17:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=3316#comment-372797</guid>
		<description>The real reason that the National Popular Plan has been veteod by 3 Republican governors is that by making every vote count, it would increase voter turnout - and Democrats tend to do better when voter turnout is high.  

A large majority of the public supports electing the president by popular vote.   That is why the legislature of the small state of Hawaii was able to override Governor Lingle&#039;s veto this year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real reason that the National Popular Plan has been veteod by 3 Republican governors is that by making every vote count, it would increase voter turnout &#8211; and Democrats tend to do better when voter turnout is high.  </p>
<p>A large majority of the public supports electing the president by popular vote.   That is why the legislature of the small state of Hawaii was able to override Governor Lingle&#8217;s veto this year.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/05/16/vermont-governor-vetoes-national-popular-vote-plan-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-372796</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 17:07:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=3316#comment-372796</guid>
		<description>The Electoral College, as set forth in the Constitution, is not a single system.  All the US Constitution says is that states can choose presidential electors any way they wish.  The Electoral College is therefore almost completely open-ended.  The Florida state legislature in December 2000 was busy passing a bill saying the legislature should choose the electors for the 2000 election.  The founding fathers thought the electors would exercise independent judgment.  In the early days, about half the states let each US House district choose its own presidential elector.

Because the system is so open-ended, it is wildly subject to manipulation.  The voters would have a fit if the state legislatures started appointing the electors.  There is also the danger that there will be a tie.

Whether we use the electoral college has nothing to do with  whether we are a democracy or a republic.  &quot;Democracy&quot; can include within its definition provision for a constitution that controls what the majority can do.  The United States is a constitutional democracy.  We are also a Republic.  All &quot;Republic&quot; means is a democratic system without a monarch.  If you don&#039;t agree with these defintions, tell us what your definitions are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Electoral College, as set forth in the Constitution, is not a single system.  All the US Constitution says is that states can choose presidential electors any way they wish.  The Electoral College is therefore almost completely open-ended.  The Florida state legislature in December 2000 was busy passing a bill saying the legislature should choose the electors for the 2000 election.  The founding fathers thought the electors would exercise independent judgment.  In the early days, about half the states let each US House district choose its own presidential elector.</p>
<p>Because the system is so open-ended, it is wildly subject to manipulation.  The voters would have a fit if the state legislatures started appointing the electors.  There is also the danger that there will be a tie.</p>
<p>Whether we use the electoral college has nothing to do with  whether we are a democracy or a republic.  &#8220;Democracy&#8221; can include within its definition provision for a constitution that controls what the majority can do.  The United States is a constitutional democracy.  We are also a Republic.  All &#8220;Republic&#8221; means is a democratic system without a monarch.  If you don&#8217;t agree with these defintions, tell us what your definitions are.</p>
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		<title>By: mvy</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/05/16/vermont-governor-vetoes-national-popular-vote-plan-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-372715</link>
		<dc:creator>mvy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 15:26:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=3316#comment-372715</guid>
		<description>It is encouraging that in less than two years, the National Popular Vote bill has been signed into law in Maryland, New Jersey, Hawaii, and Illinoisâ€”states possessing 19% of the electoral votes necessary to bring this law into effect (50 of 270). The bill has passed one-sixth of the legislative chambers in the U.S.â€”one house in Arkansas, Colorado, Maine, North Carolina, and Washington, and both houses in California, Hawaii, Vermont, Illinois, New Jersey, and Maryland. The bill is currently endorsed by 1005 state legislatorsâ€”440 sponsors (in 47 states) and an additional 565 legislators who have cast recorded votes in favor of the bill.

To  be involved in the National Popular Vote bill effort . . .

You can sign up to get email updates - http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/pages/getemailupdates.php

You can tell a friend- http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/pages/tellafriend.php

You can help get the word out and show your support.
Distribute literature at political, civic, or other meeting, convention, or conference. 
 
Post on discussion groups.

Write letters to editors, OpEds, and/or blog.

Up-to-date information and materials are at http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/pages/explanation.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is encouraging that in less than two years, the National Popular Vote bill has been signed into law in Maryland, New Jersey, Hawaii, and Illinoisâ€”states possessing 19% of the electoral votes necessary to bring this law into effect (50 of 270). The bill has passed one-sixth of the legislative chambers in the U.S.â€”one house in Arkansas, Colorado, Maine, North Carolina, and Washington, and both houses in California, Hawaii, Vermont, Illinois, New Jersey, and Maryland. The bill is currently endorsed by 1005 state legislatorsâ€”440 sponsors (in 47 states) and an additional 565 legislators who have cast recorded votes in favor of the bill.</p>
<p>To  be involved in the National Popular Vote bill effort . . .</p>
<p>You can sign up to get email updates &#8211; <a href="http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/pages/getemailupdates.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/pages/getemailupdates.php</a></p>
<p>You can tell a friend- <a href="http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/pages/tellafriend.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/pages/tellafriend.php</a></p>
<p>You can help get the word out and show your support.<br />
Distribute literature at political, civic, or other meeting, convention, or conference. </p>
<p>Post on discussion groups.</p>
<p>Write letters to editors, OpEds, and/or blog.</p>
<p>Up-to-date information and materials are at <a href="http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/pages/explanation.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/pages/explanation.php</a></p>
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		<title>By: Demo Rep</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/05/16/vermont-governor-vetoes-national-popular-vote-plan-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-372313</link>
		<dc:creator>Demo Rep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 07:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=3316#comment-372313</guid>
		<description>The Electoral College gerrymander system ---

half the popular votes in gerrymander areas (States, State  districts (NE, ME) and DC) to get 270 of 538 E.C. votes) = about 25 percent of ALL popular votes ---- since 1832.

ANY body who defends the E.C. is an EVIL ANTI-Democracy math MORON -- lots and lots of such New Age MORONS in the small States since 1789 who LOVE having minority rule in choosing each Prez/VP.

See the 1860 minority rule election for Prez Lincoln (about 40 percent of the popular votes) and the resulting about 620,000 D-E-A-D Americans in the horrific 1861-1865 Civil War.

Of course history means NOTHING to Stone Age math M-O-R-O-N-S.

Remedy -- regardless of MORONS.

Uniform definition of Elector in ALL of the U.S.A.

Approval Voting for NONPARTISAN Prez/VP - vote for 1 or more, highest win --- pending advanced head to head math.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Electoral College gerrymander system &#8212;</p>
<p>half the popular votes in gerrymander areas (States, State  districts (NE, ME) and DC) to get 270 of 538 E.C. votes) = about 25 percent of ALL popular votes &#8212;- since 1832.</p>
<p>ANY body who defends the E.C. is an EVIL ANTI-Democracy math MORON &#8212; lots and lots of such New Age MORONS in the small States since 1789 who LOVE having minority rule in choosing each Prez/VP.</p>
<p>See the 1860 minority rule election for Prez Lincoln (about 40 percent of the popular votes) and the resulting about 620,000 D-E-A-D Americans in the horrific 1861-1865 Civil War.</p>
<p>Of course history means NOTHING to Stone Age math M-O-R-O-N-S.</p>
<p>Remedy &#8212; regardless of MORONS.</p>
<p>Uniform definition of Elector in ALL of the U.S.A.</p>
<p>Approval Voting for NONPARTISAN Prez/VP &#8211; vote for 1 or more, highest win &#8212; pending advanced head to head math.</p>
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