Comments on: Parties are Free to Nominate a Presidential and a Vice-Presidential Candidate from the Same State http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/06/23/parties-are-free-to-nominate-a-presidential-and-a-vice-presidential-candidate-from-the-same-state/ Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:15:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=1521 By: Jim R http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/06/23/parties-are-free-to-nominate-a-presidential-and-a-vice-presidential-candidate-from-the-same-state/comment-page-1/#comment-414958 Jim R Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:51:48 +0000 http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=3532#comment-414958 In 1792, the 4 Kentucky electors voted for George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. This was Kentucky's first participation in a presidential election. In 1789, Kentucky was still part of Virginia, and Virginia chose its presidential electors by district, one of which included Kentucky. It's conceivable that the same voters could have chosen the same presidential elector, who would have not constitutionally been able to do in 1789, what they did do in 1792. In 1792, the 4 Kentucky electors voted for George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. This was Kentucky’s first participation in a presidential election.

In 1789, Kentucky was still part of Virginia, and Virginia chose its presidential electors by district, one of which included Kentucky. It’s conceivable that the same voters could have chosen the same presidential elector, who would have not constitutionally been able to do in 1789, what they did do in 1792.

]]> By: Demo Rep http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/06/23/parties-are-free-to-nominate-a-presidential-and-a-vice-presidential-candidate-from-the-same-state/comment-page-1/#comment-414949 Demo Rep Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:34:11 +0000 http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=3532#comment-414949 2004 PREZ GERRYMANDER MATH B BUSH, K KERRY, OTH OTHER W WIN, L LOSE ECV ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES PCT PERCENT OF POPULAR VOTES MW MINORITY WINNER STATES/DC IN HIGH TO LOW ORDER BY BUSH PERCENT. ECV ECV PCT ECV PCT OTH B-K PCT SAFE BUSH 213 UT, WY, ID, NE, OK, ND, AL, KS, TX, AK, IN, SD, KY, MS, MT, SC, GA, TN, LA, WV, NC, AZ, AR, VA, MO MARGINAL BUSH 73 FL 27 BW 27 52.10 KL 0 47.09 0.81 5.01 CO 9 BW 9 51.69 KL 0 47.02 1.29 4.67 OH 20 BW 20 50.81 KL 0 48.71 0.48 2.10 NV 5 BW 5 50.47 KL 0 47.88 1.65 2.59 IA 7 BW 7 49.90 KL 0 49.23 0.87 0.67 MW NM 5 BW 5 49.84 KL 0 49.05 1.11 0.79 MW TOTAL BUSH 286 --------- MARGINAL KERRY 69 WI 10 BL 0 49.32 KW 10 49.70 0.98 -0.38 MW NH 4 BL 0 48.87 KW 4 50.24 0.89 -1.37 PA 21 BL 0 48.42 KW 21 50.92 0.66 -2.50 MI 17 BL 0 47.81 KW 17 51.23 0.96 -3.42 MN 10 BL 0 47.61 KW 10 51.09 1.30 -3.48 OR 7 BL 0 47.19 KW 7 51.35 1.46 -4.16 SAFE KERRY 183 NJ, DE, WA, HI, ME, IL, CA, CT, MD, NY, VT, RI, MA, DC TOTAL KERRY 252 HOW MANY POSSIBLE WAYS TO GET A 269-269 TIMEBOMB TIE IN 2008 - regardless of all wonks ??? Pity the poor suffering voters in the really marginal E.C. gerrymander States --- IA, NM, WI and NH --- facing a deluge of TV attack ads, lawsuits, recounts, etc. etc. Rest up the Supremes --- Bush v. Gore 2000 may become trivial by comparison to 2008 stuff. ----- DEMOCRACY NOW. ABOLISH THE TIMEBOMB ELECTORAL COLLEGE. UNIFORM DEFINITION OF ELECTOR IN ALL OF THE U.S.A. NONPARTISAN nomination and election of all elected executive officers and all judges using Approval Voting. 2004 PREZ GERRYMANDER MATH

B BUSH, K KERRY, OTH OTHER
W WIN, L LOSE
ECV ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES
PCT PERCENT OF POPULAR VOTES
MW MINORITY WINNER

STATES/DC IN HIGH TO LOW ORDER BY BUSH PERCENT.

ECV ECV PCT ECV PCT OTH B-K PCT

SAFE BUSH 213

UT, WY, ID, NE, OK, ND, AL, KS, TX, AK, IN, SD, KY, MS, MT, SC, GA, TN, LA, WV, NC, AZ, AR, VA, MO

MARGINAL BUSH 73

FL 27 BW 27 52.10 KL 0 47.09 0.81 5.01
CO 9 BW 9 51.69 KL 0 47.02 1.29 4.67
OH 20 BW 20 50.81 KL 0 48.71 0.48 2.10
NV 5 BW 5 50.47 KL 0 47.88 1.65 2.59
IA 7 BW 7 49.90 KL 0 49.23 0.87 0.67 MW
NM 5 BW 5 49.84 KL 0 49.05 1.11 0.79 MW

TOTAL BUSH 286
———

MARGINAL KERRY 69

WI 10 BL 0 49.32 KW 10 49.70 0.98 -0.38 MW
NH 4 BL 0 48.87 KW 4 50.24 0.89 -1.37
PA 21 BL 0 48.42 KW 21 50.92 0.66 -2.50
MI 17 BL 0 47.81 KW 17 51.23 0.96 -3.42
MN 10 BL 0 47.61 KW 10 51.09 1.30 -3.48
OR 7 BL 0 47.19 KW 7 51.35 1.46 -4.16

SAFE KERRY 183

NJ, DE, WA, HI, ME, IL, CA, CT, MD, NY, VT, RI, MA, DC

TOTAL KERRY 252

HOW MANY POSSIBLE WAYS TO GET A 269-269 TIMEBOMB TIE IN 2008 – regardless of all wonks ???

Pity the poor suffering voters in the really marginal E.C. gerrymander States — IA, NM, WI and NH — facing a deluge of TV attack ads, lawsuits, recounts, etc. etc.

Rest up the Supremes — Bush v. Gore 2000 may become trivial by comparison to 2008 stuff.
—–
DEMOCRACY NOW. ABOLISH THE TIMEBOMB ELECTORAL COLLEGE.

UNIFORM DEFINITION OF ELECTOR IN ALL OF THE U.S.A.

NONPARTISAN nomination and election of all elected executive officers and all judges using Approval Voting.

]]> By: Jim R http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/06/23/parties-are-free-to-nominate-a-presidential-and-a-vice-presidential-candidate-from-the-same-state/comment-page-1/#comment-414527 Jim R Wed, 25 Jun 2008 05:40:37 +0000 http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=3532#comment-414527 John Edwards is only one person. John Edwards is only one person.

]]> By: Jim R http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/06/23/parties-are-free-to-nominate-a-presidential-and-a-vice-presidential-candidate-from-the-same-state/comment-page-1/#comment-414526 Jim R Wed, 25 Jun 2008 05:39:50 +0000 http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=3532#comment-414526 If the popular vote had been used in 2000, there is no way to tell what the result would have been. Nader would more likely been on the ballot in Georgia and North Carolina, and might not have been as easy to squeeze in other States, where it appeared that he might cost Gore electoral votes, such as Oregon. And the campaigns would likely have been conducted differently. If the popular vote had been used in 2000, there is no way to tell what the result would have been. Nader would more likely been on the ballot in Georgia and North Carolina, and might not have been as easy to squeeze in other States, where it appeared that he might cost Gore electoral votes, such as Oregon. And the campaigns would likely have been conducted differently.

]]> By: Carey Campbell http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/06/23/parties-are-free-to-nominate-a-presidential-and-a-vice-presidential-candidate-from-the-same-state/comment-page-1/#comment-414350 Carey Campbell Tue, 24 Jun 2008 21:58:53 +0000 http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=3532#comment-414350 Richard, Thank You. I too tried to post to Green Party Watch. Gregg. You guys are doing good work over there. Thank You. Keep at it. Richard did you notice that Cindy Sheehan's press release noted she'd raised $200,000.. Ballot access looks like she'll need it...with the date growing near. The logistical challenge and budget issues re: two candidates from California..flights to east coast... Of course Michael Bloomberg could solve all these issues for the Green Party, as surely you agree Gregg. ;-) Richard,

Thank You. I too tried to post to Green Party Watch.

Gregg. You guys are doing good work over there.
Thank You. Keep at it.

Richard did you notice that Cindy Sheehan’s press release noted she’d raised $200,000..

Ballot access looks like she’ll need it…with the date growing near.

The logistical challenge and budget issues re: two candidates from California..flights to east coast…

Of course Michael Bloomberg could solve all these issues for the Green Party, as surely you agree Gregg.

;-)

]]> By: Demo Rep http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/06/23/parties-are-free-to-nominate-a-presidential-and-a-vice-presidential-candidate-from-the-same-state/comment-page-1/#comment-414349 Demo Rep Tue, 24 Jun 2008 21:55:50 +0000 http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=3532#comment-414349 # 7 -- So What ??? Defending Democracy takes some WORK. If necessary, then mobilize ALL able bodied adults on Election Days to count the votes in each precinct using human eyeballs -- except for police, fire, military type folks on active duty. Sorry - possible bad TV ratings that day. How many statewide recounts since 1776 - offices and issues ??? Abolish the timebomb Electoral College NOW -- before Civil WAR II happens because of E.C. machinations. There will be about 8-10 marginal E.C. timebomb States in 2008. # 7 — So What ???

Defending Democracy takes some WORK.

If necessary, then mobilize ALL able bodied adults on Election Days to count the votes in each precinct using human eyeballs — except for police, fire, military type folks on active duty.

Sorry – possible bad TV ratings that day.

How many statewide recounts since 1776 – offices and issues ???

Abolish the timebomb Electoral College NOW — before Civil WAR II happens because of E.C. machinations.

There will be about 8-10 marginal E.C. timebomb States in 2008.

]]> By: Richard http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/06/23/parties-are-free-to-nominate-a-presidential-and-a-vice-presidential-candidate-from-the-same-state/comment-page-1/#comment-414282 Richard Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:04:17 +0000 http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=3532#comment-414282 If the U.S. had used the national popular vote to elect a president in 2000, I doubt a recount would have been necessary. The Gore margin over Bush nationwide was 537,179 votes, a margin of .51% (Gore got 48.38%, Bush got 47.87%). A half-percent is really a large margin. Recounts typically don't change anything unless the original tally had been within one-tenth of 1% or less. If the U.S. had used the national popular vote to elect a president in 2000, I doubt a recount would have been necessary. The Gore margin over Bush nationwide was 537,179 votes, a margin of .51% (Gore got 48.38%, Bush got 47.87%). A half-percent is really a large margin. Recounts typically don’t change anything unless the original tally had been within one-tenth of 1% or less.

]]> By: Michael http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/06/23/parties-are-free-to-nominate-a-presidential-and-a-vice-presidential-candidate-from-the-same-state/comment-page-1/#comment-414273 Michael Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:44:35 +0000 http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=3532#comment-414273 To Demo Rep--If it wasn't for the Electoral College, we would not have been counting the votes in four counties in Florida in 2000. We would have been counting ALL the votes in ALL the counties in ALL the states. To Demo Rep–If it wasn’t for the Electoral College, we would not have been counting the votes in four counties in Florida in 2000. We would have been counting ALL the votes in ALL the counties in ALL the states.

]]> By: Richard http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/06/23/parties-are-free-to-nominate-a-presidential-and-a-vice-presidential-candidate-from-the-same-state/comment-page-1/#comment-414272 Richard Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:43:09 +0000 http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=3532#comment-414272 I tried to comment at Green Party Watch, but I can't get "blogger.com" (or whatever it's called) to accept my registration, and unless I register, I can't comment. I only posted here, at my own site, out of frustration that I couldn't post a comment at Green Party Watch. I tried to comment at Green Party Watch, but I can’t get “blogger.com” (or whatever it’s called) to accept my registration, and unless I register, I can’t comment. I only posted here, at my own site, out of frustration that I couldn’t post a comment at Green Party Watch.

]]> By: Eric Prindle http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/06/23/parties-are-free-to-nominate-a-presidential-and-a-vice-presidential-candidate-from-the-same-state/comment-page-1/#comment-414248 Eric Prindle Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:53:40 +0000 http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=3532#comment-414248 I agree that the Green Party should not rule out the possibility of nominating two candidates from the same state, but both the campaign and the party should be prepared for the possibility of lawsuits and weigh the costs and benefits. As I argued on Green Party Watch, I think Richard is clearly right about the constitutional law, and any competent court should agree, but the Democrats can always pull a 2004 and parachute in Larry Tribe to intimidate the judges with frivolous arguments, dragging out the process and imposing financial burdens and uncertainty on the campaign. I agree that the Green Party should not rule out the possibility of nominating two candidates from the same state, but both the campaign and the party should be prepared for the possibility of lawsuits and weigh the costs and benefits.

As I argued on Green Party Watch, I think Richard is clearly right about the constitutional law, and any competent court should agree, but the Democrats can always pull a 2004 and parachute in Larry Tribe to intimidate the judges with frivolous arguments, dragging out the process and imposing financial burdens and uncertainty on the campaign.

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