According to the West Virginia Secretary of State, petitions for Libertarian Party candidate Bob Barr fell short. He turned in 13,036 of the 15,118 required by state law.
The Barr campaign website says a lawsuit will be filed on Tuesday and they will continue to collect signatures to exceed 20,000. The basis of the lawsuit will in Anderson v. Celebrezze. The LP objects to the “arbitrary date” established by state law for having petition drives completed. Republicans don’t have to officially file until their convention ends in September, so there’s no compelling reason to have independents submit signatures sooner. The Secretary of State’s spokesperson said it was unclear if county clerks will continue to verify signatures on Barr petitions.
Independent Ralph Nader has been certified for the ballot in West Virginia, and Constitution Party nominee Chuck Baldwin submitted 21,704 signatures, which should be sufficient. Cynthia McKinney is on the ballot under the Mountain Party, which has affiliated with the Green Party nationally.
Oops! This doesn’t help credibility much. I guess Tim was right!
Best of luck to the Barr campaign.
This is very odd. The LP is by now a veteran of the ballot access efforts and the Constitution Party … well, it hasn’t even made much effort previously, and here it will be on the West (by God) Virginia ballot.
Congratulations to the CP and better luck to the LP.
Simple reason for the failure in West Virginia: The LP’s top petitioners were diverted to New Hampshire to save the ballot drive there, as a result of protest candidate George Phillies’ renegade campaign. Phillies supporters in NH refused to help the LPNH get on the ballot. So, National had to do it with help from a few of the more mainstream LPers in NH, some newly recruited Bob Barr backers, and the few Pros flown in.
If the Pros had been able to go to West Virginia instead, we’d likely be on the ballot there.
The NH thing isn’t entirely Phillies’ fault. Even if he wanted to, the NH SoS won’t let them substitute Barr’s name on the ballot.
That’s Massachussetts where the SoS is refusing to let Barr on to substitute for Phillies. It’s less clear in New Hampshire, if that is indeed the case.
Regardless, in both cases, it’s still Phillies’ fault. For, Phillies very cleverly early on, connived the two state parties, (and there’s some evidence of a third – Connecticut), to petition to get him on the ballot. They could have waited til a Nominee was chosen.
What a scam he pulled. It’s actually quite brillant. But then again, Phillies has been playing this sort of political game for years.
The Constitution Party of WV volunteers began petitioning over two years ago for ballot access for our gubernatorial candidate, Butch Paugh. Then, a year and a half ago, we learned that stand-in candidates for president were permitted and modified our petitions in accordance with the specified wording. We’ve spent THOUSANDS of DOLLARS driving all over the state to fairs and festivals to collect these signatures. Also, 21,704 is better than I had expected as I had only accounted for 20,610 of them last Friday.
If the Libertarians win their lawsuit based on an “arbitrary” Aug 1 deadline, than the two and half month earlier May 12 deadline for gubernatorial candidate nomination petitions is certainly arbitrary as well and Butch Paugh’s name should be placed on the ballot. Good Luck Libertarians.
A timeline:
Crisis in New Hampshire; Top LP petitioners diverted from West Virginia to NH to save the petition drive there. Top LP petitioners already on the ground next door in Ohio and Kentucky. 6 of them flown into Manchester instead of Charleston for NH drive.
Top LP petitioners work night and day to save the NH drive. The are delayed 3 to 4 days from going into CT. Connecticut becomes a crisis. Total chaos for 7 days. But CT LP makes it in the final hours.
Still, top LP petitioners delayed from going to Maine. Maine????
Whose at fault?
If the Phillies partisans/Leftwing Libertarians had helped a just a little bit in New Hampshire, National LP petitioners could have left the State 3 to 4 days earlier, and thus Connecticut would not have been in such jeopardy. CT could have been finished a day or two earlier, which would have allowed LP petitioners to get to Maine with plenty of time to spare.
Addendum:
Instead, Phillies and his supporters, knowing that they were still a few hundred shy from gathering enough signatures to qualify in New Hampshire, still went ahead and petitioned for Phillies, instead of assisting the Barr effort.
That’s the crux of all the difficulties for the Libertarian Party ballot access efforts here in New England.
If we miss a State here, there’s only one person and one person only to blame: The Wiccan/Pagan Leftwinger Libertarian guy from Mass.
Addendum Two:
His supporters share some of the blame, as well.
So does the Libertarian Party, for not holding its convention earlier and thus making the need for substitution irrelevant.
The Constitution Party was also stupid on this front.
It seems to me that George Phillies has a right to be the candidate in New Hampshire. He and his supporters did all the work to make it happen!
Glaivester,
So the Constitution Party is supposed to hold it’s 2008 presidential nominating convention two years ahead of time in 2006?
It took us over two years to collect all of our ballot acccess signatures.
The only thing “stupid” about this is that there are no instructions for stand-in candidates in the West Virginia election law. The SOS just “allows it”, and we were fortunate to have a source tip us off and send us a copy of their letter with instructions from the Elections Division.
Since voters are actually casting their ballots NOT for any presidential candidate, then the parties OUGHT to be able to get on their respective ballots by petitioning for a slate of Electors.
Will some legally knowledgeable person advise on this?
Thank you.
Phil Sawyer, so what you’re essentially saying is that the Libertarian Party doesn’t have the right to hold a Nominating Convention and Nominate a National Candidate. Leave it all up to the locals, right?
Jeff Becker:
I am not talking about West Virginia. I am talking about the very late start that the Constitution Party got in most of the states in which they ran (I’m specifically upset about New England). The ballot access drive should have started much, much earlier in most of the states, which would have been easier had Baldwin been the nominee bacl in January.
I’m upset because out access drive in Maine was a flop.
Eric Dondero Says:
August 10th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Phil Sawyer, so what you’re essentially saying is that the Libertarian Party doesn’t have the right to hold a Nominating Convention and Nominate a National Candidate. Leave it all up to the locals, right?
Phil Sawyer responds:
Well, not exactly. I do think that a state party has the right to nominate its own presidential and vice presidential ticket. However, in most cases, the party would then have the moral obligation to rescind its affiliation with the national party.
In the case of the New Hampshire Libertarian Party, this year, I am not aware of all the details involved – the situation may not actually require a disaffiliation. It just seems to me that George Phillies and his supporters went to a lot of work to place his name on the ballot and, that, the national Libertarian Party would do well to leave well enough alone – as the old saying goes.
We can allow Richard Winger and the other ballot access experts to further elaborate on this situation.
West Virginia’s not the only state looking shakey for Barr on that chart up top. What’s happening in Maine?
Quasirelated: I live in Nader’s New York drive is looking kind of nervous too.
That is, Nader’s drive in New York, where I live, seems to be in danger of falling short.
Oh, ‘Naders’ Raiders’ with a head shot of Uncle Ralph?
Oops, ‘Progressive’ and the buffalo. Exciting….
Hello Friends (and Enemies)!
Eric Dondero and the facts mix like oil and water, so allow me to tell you the truth:
Eric Dondero, Scott Kohlhaas, and Paul Jacob are long time friends, and long time Anti-Selective Service activists. (This story doesn’t pertain to Paul Jacob though, because he has always been an honest person.) Dondero vacillates on his opposition to the draft, because he is rabidly pro-war (and gullible in many other ways too). Dondero and Kohlhaas have done nothing significant with their lives, nor are they exceptionally intelligent. Paul Jacob has had a successful career in effective Libertarian-minded politics, working for Howie Rich (he is the only one who served time in jail for his work against the draft).
The problem with West Virginia has nothing to do with the Libertarian Party’s “top petitioners” (Eric Dondero, referring to himself, trying forever to toot his own horn while smearing everyone who isn’t a “pro-war libertarian”) being diverted to New Hampshire. To my knowledge, Phillies even supported Barr being on the ballot in NH, if NH would allow substitution (which they stated they would not). The State of NH not allowing substitution is a valid and legitimate reason for a LP lawsuit, because such a law against substitution disallows the right of minor parties to self-determine their candidates for federal office (Eric is right about this, and this only). Those who support Phillies being on the ballot in NH are clueless, or short-sighted (typically due to a somewhat legitimate dislike of Barr, the only LP presidential candidate in history to oppose jury nullification of law). (NOTE: …LOL… Barr seems clueless about why Ron Paul’s supporters have not shifted their fundraising to him, and then he hires anti-libertarians to screw over the LP’s longtime activists base, fails to disavow the drug war on National TV, and blogs about how juries are “supposed to take the law as the judge gives it to them”… …None too bright!)
Shane Cory, and the people who gave him absolute authority over the WV drive, bear sole responsibility for WV failing to access the ballot. LP petitioners WERE diverted from WV, but not because of Phillies. …He had nothing to do with it. The truth is worse.
…I arrived in WV with plenty of time to save the WV ballot drive. (And there were 4 blacklisted LP petitioners who were sitting idle in other areas of the country, because of Sean Haugh and Scott Kohlhaas’s insane tempers.) I was treated like crap by Shane, every time I tried to suggest ways of saving the WV drive. It was as if he was utterly determined that the drive fail. It took me a while to realize this, but Scott Kohlhaas was playing both him and me against each other as fools (assuming Shane was talking to Scott and Scott’s old buddy Eric Dondero, which I think is obvious at this point, since he admitted as much to me).
The real reason why this is happening is a long story, that sounds paranoid unless you actually have all the relevant documents and evidence in front of you (as I do).
It all begins in Nebraska in 2006.
1) Scott Kohlhaas hires and then defrauds several longtime libertarian activists/petitioners in Nebraska(Andy Jacobs, Paulie Cannoli, Mark Pickens, Gary Fincher), including the one(Gary Fincher) who taught him how to run a libertarian voter registration drive. He screwed them out of $10,000, and Andy paid the others out of his own pocket, so they would not be face dire personal hardship. (This is old news, and only relevant here to set the stage)
2) The defrauded petitioners show up to an LNC meeting —surprise!—, and LNC members pony up to pay Andy and the others what they were initially owed (while assuring them that Scott will pay for what he has done). But Scott never pays any personal price for what he’s done, and this angers Andy, who lost the interest on his money as well as the use of it for 6 months, on the money and time he fronted for the others. It also bothers Andy that he never got even an apology from Kohlhaas who simply ditched his phone calls for 6 months. …So Andy becomes a vocal critic of Scott Kohlhaas, and personally confronts him and his accomplice Sean Haugh at the National LP Convention.
At the LP Denver Convention, Kohlhaas and Haugh deny everything and run away from Andy, calling security (…as real men typically react to allegations of wrongdoing!).
3) The National LP hires Sean Haugh, and Sean Haugh is fairly worthless. (He gets paid over $1,000 per month to administer “Candidate Tracker” –a candidate ranking system for ~60 candidates that Sean built using arbitrarily and inflexibly-valued criteria–, which is a defanged version of Joe Dehn’s candidate tracking system that featured over 2,000 candidates) Haugh has few skills of any kind, but he’s played politics the right way, and gotten a position at the National LP. He does have one useful characteristic though: he recognizes and defers to authority, and he understands crude machiavellian politics. Haugh becomes the LP “Political Director”, even though he has no idea how to run a petition drive, and even though his hot temper quickly destroys most work relationships.
4) Since the hot-tempered (to the point of lunacy) Sean Haugh has no idea how to run a petition drive, Scott Kohlhaas is hired to do Sean’s job for him. What to do with the useless Sean then?
5) Since Sean Haugh has half the social skills of G.G. Allin, he quickly finds a use as Scott Kohlhaas’s “flack jacket”. ie: Scott is able to manipulate Sean into “firing” Andy Jacobs, Gary Fincher, Mark Pickens, Paulie Cannoli, (and possibly myself), using Sean as his hotheaded, power-tripping messenger.
Since Sean is a hothead who loves his title, and gets off on exercising his authority (think South Park’s Eric Cartman, and you have a fairly good idea), Kohlhaas doesn’t need to do much but point him in the direction of his enemies. After all, Kohlhaas is fairly smooth, and Sean is his gift from the gods that can be used to silence those pesky petitioners he defrauded in Nebraska.
(NOTE: People unfamiliar with the Libertarian Party’s mode of operation need to understand a lot before they weigh in on this subject. LP petitioners typically work as independent contractors. This makes them unsympathetic characters if the LP has to “fire” them. Typically, any petitioner who has been fired is fired for insanity or criminality, and are even less sympathetic. Those with low production are typically given as many second chances as nature allows, but are not paid expenses –after all, what petition drive throws away valid signatures? Plus, they are not employees, like Haugh and Kohlhaas are, and thus fairly easy to simply “not inform, and not rehire”. In the case that they are libertarians though, it also makes them hard to fire, if they are willing to pay expenses. After all, they can find out about the LP petition drive, show up, do good work, and a State-run signature drive that is hard-pressed for signatures will likely not be able to resist paying for the work, in order to get the benefit of additional valid signatures. In addition, a rogue petitioner can sabotage LP petition drives in any of a thousand ways. A mercenary petitioner would never take revenge to those heights, but a smart and determined rogue Libertarian could easily do so, utterly destroying the LP’s ballot access efforts. …Luckily, all the incentives are typically in the right place. After all, the petitioners WANT the LP on the ballot, as do the drive coordinators. …Usually.)
6) Which brings us to present day: There are 3 petitioners in Alabama that have been “blacklisted” by the hotheaded Sean Haugh. They are Andy Jacobs, Paulie Cannoli, and Mark Pickens. Mark Pickens was eventually rehired and the others are handing in their signatures through him, as agreed by Sean Haugh, who said: “I don’t care as long as I don’t have to deal with them” (I told you this guy was “smooth”! After all, this allows him to not pay expenses to LP activists, even though he’s paying them to mercenaries who have terrible validity! Welcome to getting screwed by the LP BECAUSE YOU ARE A LIBERTARIAN! Sound like fun? …It really is!).
These petitioners went from being “fired”, to “blacklisted”, to “persona-non-grata”. Why? All of them knew that Kohlhaas was an untrustworthy asshole, and Sean is his incompetent condom (the guy who “fires” people who are independent contractors). All of these LIBERTARIAN petitioners have stellar track records of libertarian service, and all of them could have been of GREAT service in New England.
Are you beginning to see how George Phillies had nothing to do with their failures? There were 5 “blacklisted” professional LP petitioners who all do high-validity work, who were waiting in the wings unused. We also know that the mercenaries who were brought in to these problem areas were paid MORE than those activists, PLUS EXPENSES!!
LP DONORS, WAKE UP! This is what is being done with your money! Do you think that your money should be used to take revenge on LP activists?
Gary Fincher was in New England, at the actual time of Dumbdero’s ballot “crises” like the one in WV (the ones allegedly caused by George Phillies). Fincher is a longtime Libertarian Activist, but he is not pro-war, so Dondero hates him, (and considers him a leftist). Fincher is a Libertarian, who was circulating for the Constitution Party ONLY, because Sean Haugh had “fired and blacklisted” him, stating that he was “no longer able to be hired by the Libertarian Party”. (Haugh also told the MA LP to burn the signatures that Gary had collected, which would have been equivalent to burning $3,000 in LP ballot access donations. None too bright.)
I am the latest LP petitioner “blacklisted” by the asshole trio comprised of Scott Kohlhaas, Sean Haugh, and Shane Cory. The latter two people don’t know how to run a petition drive, and have simply been promoted above their level of competence. Kohlhaas does know how to run a petition drive, but has a skeleton in his closet that he doesn’t want people to know about (because it will interfere with his livelihood, which is taking State Libertarian Parties for all they are worth, in fundraising, and petitioning).
7) West Virginia was screwed for lack of being able to bring in lots of pro LP petitioners, right at the beginning. When I arrived in WV, I was able and willing to save the petition drive. But Shane Cory had no idea how petition drives are run. He refused my help as a coordinator, and berated and ranted at me, and defaulted on his obligation to pay my expenses as incurred, leaving me holding the bag on motel bills, with $0 in my bank account to eat.
Perhaps had I not been sitting awake one night waiting for the Constitution Party to bail me out, and listening to my stomach growl, I would have gotten a higher # of signatures per day. Of course, not even that could save the WV drive, which was TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY DELUSIONAL.
Cory seemed totally lost when I strongly suggested I wanted to be a “coordinator” (Coordinator is a term that Cory, Haugh, and Kohlhaas use to denote someone who gets paid to make phone calls from an air-conditioned room. I am not quite using the term in the same way. I am using it to denote someone who is paid to bring people into a petition drive, by offering them pay and arrangements that make it worth their while. Much easier to do if you know where someone is coming from, philosophically. Of course, Shane Cory is not even a libertarian, so that would be difficult for him.). Cory still seems to think that He can give orders, and issue threats, and get political results in return. He refused to allow me to bring in several longtime libertarian petitioners to WV. (I had several waiting in the wings, that wanted very reasonable terms in order to come in and save WV, and Cory killed the deal on each one of them. I did everything but give him my rolodex, –letting him piss off everyone I knew–which would have been futile anyway.)
Moreover, Cory bitched about my fluctuating levels of production, and failed to deliver a message from Austin Peterson that a prime petitioning location had opened up in Huntington, WV (One that I had begun negotiations with). I pulled 200 signatures per day out of that location for the last 2 days of the drive. What if I had had that location for the whole last week? Cory was upset because I refused to call him every day and let him berate me for having fallen slightly under 100 signatures per day (a number that would have been enough to save the drive if he had gotten out of my way in coordinating, or if the people higher than him in authority had not simply transferred me back to him when I called them, in true obstructionist fashion.)
Was Cory talking to Kohlhaas and Sean Haugh? YES. He admitted as much. He also stated his dislike of Andy Jacobs, and Roger Pope (two of the people who could have helped to pull his flaming ass from the fire). He was nothing but a jerk who did nothing but blame me for ruining the drive, allegedly because I was coming in right around my quota (after he grossly violated his oral contract to pay my expenses, so I did not have to worry about rental car and motel, which I wound up paying out of pocket).
In Kohlhaas’s defense, he actually does know how to run a petition drive, and has been doing so for many years. His rates are steep, but he typically gets the job done. Before Nebraska, he was fairly trustworthy. Post Nebraska, his strategy towards petition completion has been to stab everyone who knows about Nebraska in the back, in order to discredit them.
The testament to the lack of utility in this strategy is West Virginia, and the several screw-ups in New England. (CT, PA, NY, MA, etc…)
Even if we are on the ballot in many of those places, it is only because we are not challenged. The mercenaries that Kohlhaas and Haugh have hired in the place of longtime LP petitioners have grossly defaulted in getting valid signatures. In several cases, the validity rates in the above States are around 40%.
Dondero is right that Longtime Libertarian Party petitioners have not been available to work on drives. He toots his own horn as one such petitioner, ignoring the big picture. Almost humorously, he states that “Those guys(Andy Jacobs, Paulie Cannoli, Gary Fincher, Mark Pickens,) (and myself) are leftist scum, and if the LP can’t get on the ballot without them, then they shouldn’t be on the ballot!” (He gave me this pearl of wisdom after allegedly misdailing my number today, while trying to reach Kohlhaas. –We both have AK area codes, and Dondero’s simple brain can’t seem to differentiate the other 7 numbers.) The reason Dondero thinks that myself and the others are “leftist scum”?:
a) We are all noninterventionists who are against the Iraq occupation (and in Dondero’s eyes that makes us “islamo-fascists”), and in favor of private gun ownership (unlike him, at times) as a way to protect America.
b) We have all circulated for other minor parties (including leftist parties) at the same time as circulating for the LP (since those other minor parties were circulating for the LP if we would circulate for them, in the interest of mutually overcoming ballot access restrictions.) …Ironically, Christina Tobin, the national ballot access coordinator for the Ralph Nader Independent campaign tried desperately to save the LP WV ballot access drive, since she is a longtime LP member. Her efforts to save our asses were spat upon, and ignored, until the hammer had fallen on WV.
(A hilarious irony here is that Scott Kohlhaas once told me that he wanted US troops to come home in body bags, because that would be the only thing that could open the US public’s eyes to the horror of war. …But Dondero is still good friends with him, because he’s the bossman! …I guess the guy who writes the checks won’t be considered an un-American islamo-fascist until he straps himself with dynamite and blows up a nightclub.)
There are many irrelevant quarrels in these disputes. Some people may not like Gary Fincher’s personality, but this is not the place to discuss that, and all posts to that effect should be considered irrelevant. What is relevant here is that he is a longtime libertarian activist with a stellar track record that was well-known to George Phillies. (Fincher was slandered by Kohlhaas several times. While I was friends with Kohlhaas, up in Alaska, he stated that Fincher used voter reg forms to harass women that he wanted to date. This has never been substantiated, save for one instance where a clueless woman who had left off crucial info on her voter reg card was called by Gary to collect the info. The woman freaked out, and called the authorities, worried that someone was trying to steal her identity. …Gary was cleared of all wrongdoing by the authorities.)
7) I am the latest petitioner to be blacklisted/denigrated/fired by Scott Kohlhaas/ Sean Haugh/ Shane Cory. (Haugh lost his considerable temper with me once again –it’s happened before, when I was generally critical of the LP– after I responded to a slanderous email from Shane Cory about my petitioning work in WV. For the offense of defending my character, my integrity, and my work, I was fired by Haugh, the Political Director of the LP.)
Incidentally, if CT was behind schedule, then perhaps Sean Haugh should have honored his existing agreement to send me there. (Kohlhaas sent me an email that was approved by Haugh, the day before Haugh “fired” me for responding to Shane Cory. In that email –one day before the end of WV, with 5 days left on the CT petition drive, Kohlhaas and Haugh agreed to pay for my travel, motel, and rental car to CT. So if CT screwed things up for them, maybe it’s because Haugh took me off of CT —for the heinous crime of defending myself in an email that was CCed to him. The beauty of that slimebag maneiver was that he didn’t leave me a message on my phone, just on my email, and then Kohlhaas didn’t answer my phonecalls, so they could later try to screw me on travel expenses, if I had simply gone to CT and done the work anyway, having not checked my email.)
Anyway…
Dondero is a spin man, a hack. …As well as a person with no moral scruples of any kind.
He is so damned stupid he will echo any story that any employer of his tells him to echo. He is a consummate “company man”. Wherever the paycheck comes from, that’s who Dondero believes. (In his deepest philosophy, he is similar. He only cares to be on the winning team. It matters not at all whether that team is communist, as long as it doesn’t call itself communist, because then he couldn’t keep up his charade of being “pro-American”, as his pathetic little petitioning company –comprised of himself alone– is called.)
Well, this was another email cluttered with too many facts, and it would have been ten times longer if I had placed all the actual hard-copy evidence inside the email.
If anyone wants substantiation of any of this, feel free to email me or call me.
These bastards that have hijacked the LP have an expiration date, and the sooner it’s reached, the better.
The Barr Campaign has already figured out that Shane Cory is “tits on a bull”. …Now for the other two manipulative bastards.
Along with Redpath (apparently), I don’t favor firing Kohlhaas. He has slaved a long time, for very little in the way of a retirement account(thanks to his ineptitude with handling money, and racking up a massive credit card debt).
I simply favor
1a) having him sign a formal apology and admission of wrongdoing to Gary, Andy, Mark, and Paulie, as well as pay them a 15% annual rate of interest on what they were owed between the date they were defrauded and the date the LNC made good on his promise to pay.
2a) Removing him from any position of authority at the National Libertarian Party. (Which would allow him to contract with the various State parties, just like he used to.)
On the other hand, Sean Haugh should be fired immediately, and replaced by any one of 20 people (with myself #21 on the list, right after NOTA, the abolition of the “Political Director” position). Any of 20 people in my mind could easily pick up every single petition drive that is currently being worked on, and have it come to completion better than it will with Sean finishing it.
This would be true, even if Sean decided to fling poo on his way out the door, and actively interfere with all of the ongoing operations of existing LP ballot access drives. As far as I can see, Sean has done nothing but hold us back, as a Party and a movement. As dues-paying LP members, we await Sean’s next irrational outburst, idly hoping that it won’t be criminal in nature (as his order to burn 2,000 valid petition signatures in Massachusetts was).
And even if we squeak by without anyone challenging us, what did we gain with Sean and Scott running the LP (and collecting nice salaries to do it)?
…We failed to be listed on the ballot in AL as a party, and instead, Barr/Root are on the ballot there as “Independent candidates”. The deadline is not much earlier for being listed as a party, and it does not require a vastly larger # of signatures.
If the LP’s “Political Director” (who couldn’t politic his way out of a wet paper bag) hadn’t been so concerned with stabbing longtime libertarian activists in the back, perhaps he would have actually gained a state or two of ballot access.
Moreover, perhaps without all the ballot access infighting, running a formed prosecutor who (seemingly?) doesn’t understand the Federal Reserve or Jury Nullification of Law would have actually been a Faustian payoff, where we actually gained something for our 2012 candidate.
Instead, we are speaking softly, and carrying a little stick, once again.
No wonder Dondero is so pissed off! …He’s not playing on the winning team! (Now if he can just get his tiny brain around the _WHY_, maybe we can all sleep a little sounder tonight.)
BTW: I am now working on local initiatives, instead of Libertarian Party ballot access. After the initiatives are done, I will go back to being a financial services broker. In 2012, I will work for the LP, whether they know it or not, and if they have not cleaned house, I will clean it for them. Or, I will return to Libertarian Party work when the assholes have finally gotten their comeuppance. Hopefully Bill Redpath will make that happen sooner rather than after these jokers have ripped our bag of gold dust in two, and scattered the “sand” to the four winds.
If that never happens, and the LP is finished, the ideas of liberty will live on, in Wyoming, and Alaska. Nothing can disarm us there (not even 10 years of Scott Kohlhaas being the AK LP chairman), …because freedom is a set of ideas, not a set of people.
Sincerely,
Jake Witmer
jcwitmer@hotmail.com
(The latest addition to the blacklisted yet truthful side of the story)
If anyone else has had enough of Sean Haugh and Scott Kohlhaas, I urge you to call your LNC representative, and let them know that you would like action taken on the subject. After all, Bill Redpath told Andy Jacobs that Scott Kohlhaas was “going to get a haircut” after the Nebraska screw-up. Since he appears to have meant that literally, and Kohlhaas was last seen sporting a John Edwards haircut, perhaps he needs someone to keep him honest.
If the LNC keeps quiet about this, then we’ll know that the LP is not actually the “party of principle”, and that it only has the hope of one day returning to being the “party of principle”. As it stands now, it’s simply one more insignificant minor political party, made all the more minor in its petty infighting.
Committing an election felony while in the employ of any Party as their “Political Director” is grounds for dismissal. http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/07/sean-haugh-under-fire-for-giving-instructions-to-burn-petitions/ The prior link would work as well as any one of thousands of Haugh’s official emails as a reason to terminate him, and not pay a dime of unemployment compensation. Hopefully, Kohlhaas would be made a little bit more responsible by not having an incompetent fall guy handy to take the heat for his petty power-plays.
It might also allow us to get a little higher quality work done on our ballot access petitions, in two ways:
1) Our validity rate would likely be better than the 40% it was in PA and NY, because libertarian/Libertarian petitioners actually ask petition signers if they are registered to vote
2) If anyone asks a libertarian petitioner what the Libertarian Party stands for, they actually get useful information, tailored to their level of comprehension, as opposed to “They’s independents, like Ross Perot” or something even more banal.
A Party does not get ahead by feeding its support base to the wolves, or ignoring what they have to say.
Moreover, a Party does not get to call itself the party of principle if it runs from the defense of its principles (as Sean Haugh ran from defending Wesley Snipes, during his tax evasion trial, at a golden opportunity for the LP). When I suggested we make a friend in Wesley and his supporters, Haugh berated me for using harsh language.
Here is a FWD email that speaks for itself:
=============================================
Susan Hogarth Says:
February 25th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Re: professionalism and Sean Haugh:
Haugh has a history of unprofessional outbursts. While serving as the (paid) Executive Director of the LPNC as recently as 2005, he wrote the following in a private email which (naturally) showed up later in a public forum:
Sean Haugh said: “Connie, you’re right I probably never will be a success in politics
because I believe it’s about doing the right thing, not sucking the right dick. A lot of fucking gall to speak of principle while breaking a promise.”
This is not the sort of correspondence I want to see the LP’s paid staff engaged in. We all make mistakes, but most of us learn to apologize for – rather than brag about – our mistakes.
============================================
I guess “doing the right thing” means whatever Kohlhaas says it does. I don’t think Sean would have come up with equating “doing the right thing” with “screwing over all the long-time LP petitioners and hiring mercenaries at an increased cost to LP donors” on his own.
Feel free to disagree with me any time, and I’ll be happy to calmly and logically address your arguments.
Peace,
-Jake
Please disregard the above writings of Jake Witmer. Jake is a thoroughly disgruntled, failed petitioner. He’s a dear old friend of mine. But the poor guy has fallen on very hard times.
He used to be the Nation’s Top Libertarian petitioner. It was very common for Jake to go out and grab 400 signatures, smoking Kohlhaas and I.
Nowadays, under his own admission to me the other day, he’s lucky to pull “90”.
Professional Petitioners pride themselves on the numbers. When we are routinely getting 300 or 400 a day, we boast, and brag, and even denigrate those around us, who are not pulling in the same numbers.
Jake used to be a champion of this game, all in fun, though.
Now, he’s fallen to the pitifully poor level of less than 100 a day. So, he’s predictably lashing out at those of us who are kicking his ass in numbers all over the USofA.
Thus, the attacks on his former friend, and fellow petitioner Scott Kohlhaas.
Incidentally, Scott is responsible for single handidly saving 3 or 4 petition drives for the LP this election cycle. And when I mean “single-handidly” I mean “single-handidly,” as in he himself gathered over 90% of the signatures needed.
Scott, is nothing less than a Libertarian Petitioner Hero.
And much to Jake’s dismay, the old workhorse Scott Kohlhaas is outperforming young buck Jake Witmer.
Funny that Jakie-pooh pulls a vulgar quote from Sean Haugh. As if Jake himself has never talked like that. I’ve got a mountain of email correspondence from Jake in the same regard, saying much the same things, using vulgarities in much more extreme than Haugh.
And this from a guy who fashions himself a “Chicago Mortgage Broker.” I wonder how Jakes mostly Senior Citizen clients would feel about some of his vulgarity-laden emails?
Okay Jake, you say above that you were “treated like crap” by Shane Cory in West Virginia.
Could that be precisly because you were pulling in such low numbers???
Jake, you and I both know that when you’re hot, you’re hot. I have personally witnessed you collecting hundreds of signatures in a single day.
You were the GREATEST! (back in 2004/05/06). What in the fuck has happened to you since?
I remember you bravely staved off 12 blockers in Butte, Montana on primary day and still managed to get 450 signatures, while my wussy-ass said “fuck it” and took off to petition in blocker-less Phillisburg. And still I only got 290 sigs to your 450.
Now, here we are in 2008. And the tables have completely turned. Scott and I are pulling in numbers regularly of 300, 400, and even 450, and you’re stuck in the “90 a day” range. Pitiful!
Where’s the old Jake Witmer?
Of course, someone like Shane Cory is going to treat you like crap. That’s the nature of the business. The top petitioners get treated like royalty, and the crapy petitioners end up staying at the local fleabag hotel run by less-than-friendly Pakistanis.
Sorry Jake, but you no longer are deserving of first class treatment. Your star has fallen. 90 signatures a day, is disgraceful. You have seriously damaged your reputation.
You are young enough. I certainly hope one day you can return to your previous levels of 300, 400, and 500 like past years.
ADDENDUM:
Readers please not that Scott Kohlhaas and I are both 46 years old. We’re both in good shape. But as Scott admits, we’re not the extremely engergetic petitioners we were in our 20s.
Jake is in the 30-year old range. He should be smokin’ our asses. He’s not. How sad.
Umm, Jake. Those 4 LP petitioners who were “blacklisted” have some, how you say, personal problems? You know what I’m talking about.
Let’s just say that the National Libertarian Party has professionalized, and hires now petitioners who are accountable.
I could say a lot more, but I’m sure, as smart as you are, you can read between the lines, and can figure out what I’m talking about.
BTW, as a point of reference to this whole discussion, Paulie Cannoli’s real name is Paul Frankle.
Jakie Pooh references Gary Fincher. This is the same Fincher folks, who is an openly and bitter oponent of Bob Barr, and supporter of Renegade Libertarian Presidential candidate George Phillies.
Wow! Any guesses as to why someone like Sean Haugh or anyone else at the National LP for that matter, would be a teensy weensy bit skeptical of working with Gary Fincher?
Jake whines about the Libertarian Party failing to be listed on the Alabama ballot as a Party, and that rather Barr/Root will be listed as “Independents.”
Jake, BIG FUCKING DEAL! Do you know how many times this has happend in Libertarian Party history, that the LP Presidential ticket has been listed as “Independent” rather than “Libertarian”?
I worked in the 1988 Ron Paul, Libertarian for President Campaign. I can’t swear to it, but I believe Ron was on the ballot in about 10 States as an “Independent.”
And you’re crying about one single State – Alabama – for Barr/Root?
Ahh, now we’re getting to the meat of the matter. Jake is even more disgruntled cause Shane Cory would not hire him as “Coordinator” for the West Virginia drive.
Folks, Jake has been aiming to be a “Coordinator” for years in this business. That’s his lifelong dream. Problem is he has the social skills of an Aadvarrk. The guy can’t seem to get along with anyone for any length of time.
Jake is a fantastic petitioner. Head-to-head, when he’s motivated, he’s a better petitioner than me. But Coordinator material he is not.
I’ve witnessed Jake trying to “Sub-Coordinate” some drives in Western States like Oregon. He was a disaster. A double disaster, cause he ended up spending 3/4ths of his time on the cell phone “coordinating” his underling petitioners off the street, and not gathering signatures himself.
Jake, again, get back to being a great petitioner like you were before. And forget this “Coordinating” nonsense. You suck at it. You don’t suck at petitioning. We want the old Jake back. The libertarian movement desperately needs your significant petition gathering skills.
behold… the sound of one man commenting…
William D. Stevenson wrote: “That is, Nader’s drive in New York, where I live, seems to be in danger of falling short.”
It might seem so right now Bill but look for some big changes in the very near future.
Nader has been raising money like crazy ! Over the weekend Nader raised 28,000 dollars online nearly all of which will be matched by the FEC. By comparison Bob Barr has raised 30,000 since August 1.
With this kind of influx of money one would expect the Nader Campaign to raise their bounty on signatures to at least 2 dollars above the going rate. It also would be expected the campaign would employ professional signature gathering firms.
Stand-by Bill the signature gathers will begin descending on New York in the next 24 to 48 hours like a hoard of locust.
By this time next week Nader will have 25,000 signatures in hand. And New Yorkers will still be in a daze from what hit them.
To Eric Dondero and Jake Witmer. You guys are on the wrong team !
Bob, you sound like a Madison Avenue pitch man. [Do you routinely try to have folks buy what they don’t need with money they don’t have?] Don’t we [the citizens of the failing American imperial fascist global empire] get enough hype from the Big Two [halves of the Duopoly]? Alternative parties and candidates are suppose to be DIFFERENT than the Democans and the Republicrats.
Same ole, same ole!
I have never met ‘Jake’ and my grossly NEGATIVE opinion on the Pope’s best friend, Eric, forces me not to read 90% of his rantings. How ever, on petitioning, [where I came to the attention of legendary ‘Get It Done’ California Reform Party state chair Jeff Rainforth], I have two opinions.
1] A nation wide political organization is going to rise and fall on the effectiveness of ONE PETITION GATHERER?
2] Other groups have their ‘Jake[s]’! In Oklahoma, Shene’ [She Nay] Hoffpauir is known to have taken [2008 Joke of a Presidential Candidate] Ted ‘Mississippi] Weill, court ordered Reform Party USA, and his money for various party building activities. When ever a destructive blast of hot air tears through the Heart Land, the survivors crawl out of the ruins and mention, ‘Boy, that was sure some Shene’ !”
“2) The defrauded petitioners show up to an LNC meeting —surprise!—, and LNC members pony up to pay Andy and the others what they were initially owed (while assuring them that Scott will pay for what he has done). But Scott never pays any personal price for what he’s done, and this angers Andy, who lost the interest on his money as well as the use of it for 6 months, on the money and time he fronted for the others. It also bothers Andy that he never got even an apology from Kohlhaas who simply ditched his phone calls for 6 months. …So Andy becomes a vocal critic of Scott Kohlhaas, and personally confronts him and his accomplice Sean Haugh at the National LP Convention.”
I paid Paul and Mark over $6,000 out of my own pocket under the (what turned out to be false) assumption that I’d be reimbursed for it shortly. I was also owed an additional $4,000. So when I left Nebraska I was owed a whopping total of $10,000. I kept being told that the money was “coming soon” but I did not receive the bulk of it until 10-11 months after the work was completed.
How many other petitioners out there pay other petitioners out of their own pocket and then go 10-11 months without being paid themselves? I went well above and beyond the “call of duty” so to speak.
Kohlhaas actually stopped returning my phone calls (and note that our last phone converstaion was on March 10th of 2007 where he once again promised that the money was coming soon) and I in fact did not speak to him for over a year.
I (along with Gary Fincher) confronted Scott Kohlhaas at the LP National Convention in Denver about him stiffing us on the Nebraska pay and his reaction was to run away from us. The first thing out of his mouth was a lie and that was after I asked why he stopped returning my phone calls after March 10th of 2007 he replied that he had called me a bunch of times after that. I then asked him if he wanted to verify this by checking the telephone records. He would not respond to this.
“# Eric Dondero Says:
August 11th, 2008 at 4:28 am
Umm, Jake. Those 4 LP petitioners who were “blacklisted†have some, how you say, personal problems? You know what I’m talking about.
Let’s just say that the National Libertarian Party has professionalized, and hires now petitioners who are accountable.
I could say a lot more, but I’m sure, as smart as you are, you can read between the lines, and can figure out what I’m talking about.”
This is completely false information by Eric Dondero. The three of us are currently working LP ballot access in Alabama right now.
Bill Redpath said that we are all free to work LP ballot access, and he also said that he wanted Gary to call him about coming back.
The reason Bob Barr is doing poorly on petitioning is that many LP activists can not (or will not) support him.
The Barr nomination has changed the “Party of Principle” into the “Party of Pragmatism.” It will take at least one (and possibly two) election cycles for the core LP activists (who were mostly motivated by principle) to be replaced by activists who are motivated by pragmatism. After the results of November’s election (prediction: Barr will get fewer votes than Badnarik) most of the pragmatists will become disillusioned, and leave. That’s the problem with pragmatists, (as opposed to idealists) when something isn’t working, they leave and go try something else.
As for myself, I will be voting for Chuck Baldwin. This is mostly, but not entirely, due to the fact that Barr will likely NOT be on the SD ballot.
You can tell I hit Eric where it hurt –thus the resulting string of 1,000 lies.
Let’s start with the first one:
“Umm, Jake. Those 4 LP petitioners who were “blacklisted†have some, how you say, personal problems? You know what I’m talking about.”
Ummm, no fuckerhead, I don’t know what you’re talking about. Unless it’s that I know that they regularly called you on your gross distortions of truth online, and that you hate them, and that you begged me to tell them to stop in person, when I was at your house in 2004. Other than that, I have no idea what you’re talking about, unless their problem was that your old buddy Scott Kohlhaas defrauded them in Nebraska, and has proceeded to use gis go-between Sean Haugh to try to destroy their reputations ever since.
Here’s the proof that they were forced to sign a statement that they had been made whole, after they showed up at an LNC meeting to demand they be made whole by the LP, after being defrauded by Kohlhaas. http://www.lp.org/archives/lnc20070721.pdf
or as HTML:
http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:0IcuPe0r-AgJ:www.lp.org/archives/lnc20070721.pdf+Gary+Fincher+NM+LP&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us
Scroll down until you get to page 14, “Nebraska”. The whole story is there. The LP petitioners had showed up and demanded payment. Kohlhaas never paid them any damages, or interest. When they showed up at the LNC, they were paid just what Kohlhaas should have paid them 6 months earlier.
If you were regularly denied payment –as an “on the road petitioner”– for your services, especially as a diabetic at risk of losing limbs, how long would you survive? Paying all of the late fees, expenses, etc…
Andy didn’t want to agree to the terms (that included silence about Kohlhaas’s malfeasance), but the fact that another petitioner was there, and needed to be paid forced him –under duress– to sign the statement that they had been made whole.
If any of you want to give me a 6 month interest-free loan of $10,000, I’ll be happy to take it.
An interesting distortion of truth is Dondero’s use of the term “coordinator” (Someone who sits in an air-conditioned room, and calls up petitioners only, as opposed I guess to a “coordinator-petitioner” which is what every decent “coordinator” is. Hilarious that I stayed at Eric’s house in 2004 when I did 18,000 petition signatures for the Texas LP, and half of them were from people working under me. Eric doesn’t mention this, because he’s a liar and a simpleton, and has absolutely no morals of any kind.)
I don’t have the time to counter all of Dondero’s inept lies. Eric types pretty fast, and since there doesn’t have to be one bit of truth to what he says, he can go pretty fast, creating so much falsehood, one doesn’t know where to begin. He is a good company man though, so I guess I’ll give him credit for being completely obedient to Kohlhaas and Haugh. —Good traits for a dog, but not for a man. Perhaps that’s why Eric loves the military so much –they gave him simple commands that he was capable of following.
Moreover, Dondero stayed way the hell out of West Virginia, because it was an obvious losing drive being managed by an obvious incompetent. Moreover, he would have had to have done coordination work of his own in order to save it, just like I would have, and he simply knows that that task is beyond his abilities. Moreover, his old buddy Kohlhaas most likely told him to avoid WV, because Kohlhaas was feeding Cory a line of crap the entire time.
It’s actually becoming apparent that Kohlhaas wanted WV to fail, because before the Barr campaign stepped in, he and the LP were not even going to try to complete it. To myself (and apparently Bob Barr), that seemed like a cardinal sin. Unfortunately, Verney chose to delegate to a guy who didn’t know how to run petition drives, and to give him absolute authority over the drive.
If any of my overtures to save the drive were not simply returned to an irate Shane Cory, Bob Barr would now be on the ballot in West Virginia. I bet the $850 extra plane fare for the first petitioner that Shane sent away seems cheap right now! How much are they spending in legal fees, and additional petitioning expense that didn’t need to be done, especially when you consider that it would have been easy to get done, four weeks ago?
Neither Kohlhaas nor Dondero are even libertarians, although Kohlhaas comes pretty close. (His comment about wanting American soldiers to come home in body bags didn’t seem very libertarian to me, but then again, he is a stupid losertarian, not really a libertarian, when it comes to political organization. To give him his due, he does indeed know how to run petition drives. Kohlhaas is a fairly effective petition drive coordinator, who is also fairly expensive.)
Neither Kohlhaas nor Dondero are men of vision or intelligence. It was quite amusing one time when I was in Kohlhaas’s house in AK, and he stated that “Everyone automatically acts in their own self-interest, anyway. They can’t help it.”
He was commenting on an Essay in Ayn Rand’s “The Virtue of Selfishness”. Ironically, the point Rand was making was the opposite: that when men embrace destructive belief systems, they CAN and DO act against their own self interest.
But that’s what makes political hacks like Dondero and Kohlhaas so funny: they think that by playing politics and screwing people over when it suits them, they can temporarily get ahead. So far, Kohlhaas has been proven right by the LNC’s and Bill Redpath’s inertia. I don’t expect that inertial to last beyond November, but even if it does, the LP will really just be screwing itself, because their petitioner base will move over to the Constitution Party, which will then quickly rise to challenge the LP, as a breakoff faction.
Interestingly, the CP’s organization is fairly open to running local races, and working with the LP rather than against it. Moreover, they have been fairly decent people to work with (though not entirely libertarian, they are vastly more libertarian than Eric Dondero is).
If only the LP understood that in a free market, it’s not necessary to screw anyone over. (They used to understand this, when Bill Redpath was doing Scott Kohlhaas’s job, and Kohlhaas was at a more appropriate level, devoid of authority he can’t handle.)
BTW: West Virginia would have been a resounding success, had I been listened to. (Eric’s inane echoing of Kohlhaas and Haugh’s definition of “coordinator” notwithstanding.)
Eric is a mercenary petitioner who goes where he’s told, and touts the company line. As such he is temporarily useful to “political directors” who want servility and unquestioning obedience, rather than libertarian activism. He is working with mercenaries hired by Kohlhaas and Haugh, and he will happily state that the opposite is the case, in order to bloster his own incorrect view of reality, and echo the sentiments of his employers.
Moreover, I did not coordinate on the Oregon petition drive for Paul Jacob’s “Citizens in Charge”, except in the case where I brought out petitioners who DID, IN FACT, PRODUCE (at the same time I was producing).
Dondero selectively responds to my points with fabrications that don’t address the points I made. Thus, I would have to not only explain his errors in perceiving reality, and his errors in responding to red herring arguments that he introduced while trying to make them sound like my arguments. That is a time-waster!
I suggest that anyone who wants to familiarize themseves with Eric Dondero first take this brief refresher on his style of argumentation:
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html
Eric says:
“Jake, BIG FUCKING DEAL! Do you know how many times this has happend in Libertarian Party history, that the LP Presidential ticket has been listed as “Independent†rather than “Libertarianâ€?”
Yep, it’s something that a real pro “coordinator”/ party-builder prefers to avoid. Of course, Eric Dondipshit doesn’t care at all about building the party, or preventing preventable party failures. That’s why his ass was FAR, FAR away from West Virginia when the call went out!
I was punished for going above and beyond the call of duty, and I don’t fucking like it one bit.
Moreover, from a simple common-sense standpoint, my punishment doesn’t even help my punisher, Sean Haugh, nor does it help the Libertarian Party. Nor does any of the mindless, vindictive bullshit Sean Haugh has pulled.
(And no, I don’t mind Sean Haugh swearing. I mind him getting offended at my swearing in general —at unidentified “do-nothings” in the libertarian party—, and Haugh swearing insults directed at a female individual in the LP. In short, Dondickhead, I am angered at Haugh’s hypocrisy, not his foul mouth. Of course, Eric’s mode of red herring argument can’t be bothered to make substantive arguments of any kind. All of them are red herrings designed to confuse the gullible.)
In the wild west, someone would have gunned down Eric long ago, for being a loudmouthed liar who literally cannot go one day without slandering someone.
It’s no wonder he recently stated on two separate occasions, to both Bruce Cohen and myself:
“Jake, gun rights aren’t really that important to me. You have to be kidding me, that gun nuts would be able to defend America! …That’s a job for the US military!”
He said this after I questioned him about his insane, delusional, and anti-libertarian support for gun-grabber Giuliani’s presidential candidacy, back before Giuliani “Mr. Nine-Eleven” was laughed out of the Republican primaries.
Dondero should shut his lying yapper before someone gets tired of deconstructing his online strings of lies, and decides to address him on his own terms. Since he regularly throws physical temper tantrums trying to intimidate people physically, it will be very amusing when he tries to do that around someone who is clearly his physical superior, and willing to do him violence.
(This happened once to my knowledge. Bruce Cohen threatened to “break him in half” if he didn’t instantly calm down, when he was staying at Bruce’s house in CA. Eric instantly complied, realizing that his temper tantrum would not have the typical effect. ROTFLOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_VVVTmiWFo
)
–Hilarious
Kevin Houston,
That is false info. Barr will almost certainly be on the ballot in South Dakota.
If Sgt. Eric Dondero [Pope Benedict XVI’s bestest little friend and subject of a personal endorsement for POTUS] says that ‘Jake’ is the devil’s spawn, then just maybe ‘Jake’ is AOK! Just a thought from over three years of the electronic circus!
Umm, Duh! Kevin Houston. Were you serious in posting that comment, that “that’s the problem with pragmatists, that when something isn’t working they try something else”?
I mean, that’s got to be the most brillant statement ever made on this Blog.
Bob Marstan, sorry. But I’m a libertarian. And I don’t endorse Safety Naziism (mandatory seat belt laws) and confiscatory taxation, as Ralph Nader does.
You apparently are on the right team: The team of Fascists who want to control every aspect of our lives, and rob us of all our money while you’re at it.
And btw Marston, your Ralph “Nader Raiders” are Fascists not only in ideology, but in tactics, as well. They are PRECISELY the people who have blocked our Libertarian petitioners all across the Nation, stolen our locations, and gotten us Libertarian kicked off of prime locations.
FACT: The Ralph Nader Notaries bailed on the last night of turn-in in Connecticut when the Libertarians showed up to get their petitions notarized. A gentleman’s agreement had been made between the CT LP and the CT Naderites that they’d work together on Notarizing the final night.
Well, when a cadre of Libertarians showed up at 9 pm at the Nader household near downtown Hartford, the owner of the home was heard saying on his cell phone, “I gotta go, I got a house full of fucking Libertarians…”
Soon after, the two Nader Notaries just left. The Libertarian Notaries stayed and continued to notarize both LP and Nader petitions.
Please. All of you take it elsewhere. First, all of your four letter language makes it impossible for some of us to scan the comments under particular entries because the PC’s we are using have blocking programs on them to guard against bringing up such things. Second, we’re not here for either inter or intra party squabbles. This is a site to promote third parties, not rip into each other. Third, while I’m not a lawyer, I know some of your comments are grounds for libel. So, please make us steady readers happy and take it somewhere else. We’re just not interested in your diatribes.
Between Witmer and Dondero I was getting concerned the LP was about to melt down, but then I realized I was reading a script for the sequel to Glengarry Glen Ross. Both of you “friends” need a more constructive outlet for your bile.
I would appreciate being kept out of what ever squabbles Eric and Jake have.
I have an active, detailed death threat against me from a trained, experienced killer, who is on the terrorist watch list for violent attacks against peaceful people. This individual has also bragged about being mentally ill, and additionally claims a law enforcement background as well. Thus I have asked to no avail that my real name not be used.
I have no interest in being a part of, or being referenced in their conversation.
I hope both Eric and Jake get back to getting signatures to allow the LP and other parties to be on the ballot, as I am doing. To be fair, they are both doing the same, but this comment war is a distraction.
Time spent bashing each other on here is time that would be spent getting sigs, scouting locations, or other activities which build up (rather than tear down) the prospects of ballot access.
Whatever valid points Jake makes are not well served by the excessive length and emotional style of his presentation.
Best of luck to Barr and all the other independent/alternative party candidates in getting on as many ballots as possible.
May be Jake was personally hurt and has EARNED the right to complain.
May be you also have a right to your opinion, but not in a bruising, first hand, up close way.
Apathy is rampant and not always by folks whom were ‘born disinterested’! A lot us have EARNED the right to claim abuse and declare ‘NEVER AGAIN’! One of life’s truths: “it is difficult to fire volunteers…..[after so much steer manure, they tend to quit]!”
May be Jake was personally hurt and has EARNED the right to complain.
Absolutely.
Here’s a mighty Big Fuck You going out to Steve Z (surely a bogus on-line name since he refuses to include his last name in his post).
Yoh buddy. I fucking served 4 years in the United States Navy, honorably, and have 3 medals to boot, including for service in a War Zone.
I’ve fucking petitioned for the Libertarian Party on and off for the last 25 years.
I’ve doubly earned the right to talk any Goddamned way I please. And if you don’t fucking like it, go somewheres else, cause the Publisher of this Forum is a hardcore advocate of petitioner’s rights and respects those of us, like Jake and I, who petition our asses off, versus individuals like you who wouldn’t know a clipboard if it whacked you in the ass.
“Not an appropriate forum to air differences over petitioning…”
Are you fucking kidding me???
You don’t get any more appropriate than Ballot Access News.
Perhaps you’re just a little bit ansy cause I’m bringing up topics that you’d rather not see discussed, such as the Ralph Nader Fucks screwing over us Libertarians on the petitioning trail time and time again. I realize that’s not a politically correct “gentlemanly” thing to say, but it’s the goddamned truth, and it needs to be out there.
Hey Paul Frankle, you have dissed me and badmouthed me all over the internet and all over the country to petitioners from Alaska to Maine to southern California.
What goes around, comes around buddy.
My biggest pet peeve: Individuals on-line who use bogus names like calling themselves after an Italian pastry, or the guy above who uses only “Steve Z.”
Use your GODDAMNED REAL NAME, or stay the fuck out of Political Forums. And that especially applies to you Frankle, since you gladly badmouth others who actually use their real names on-line.
Whoa, fuck you Jake. I “stayed out of West Virginia cause it was an obvious losing drive…”
Are you fucking kidding me???
Tell ya what. Call Ken Moellman up, State Chairman of the Libertarian Party of Kentucky. He’ll confirm, that Arenza and I were planning to go to WV immediately after our Cincy/Newport KY gig, but were diverted at the very last minute by LP National to help save New Hampshire.
I’m a southern boy. Take a guess which state I’d rather spend my time in – no offense to New England – New Hampshire or West Virginia.
In fact, towards the end of the NH effort when it started to look like we managed to save it, I asked National if I could go to WV. They sent me to Connecticut instead, cause we had an even bigger mess there. Fortunately, we saved that one too.
So, I’m a “Mercenary petitioner” according to Jake. Really? Guess that explains why I’m one of only a tiny handful of Libertarian Party petitioners who refuses to carry the Ralph Nader/Green Party petitions, like in Connecticut, where I could make twice as much money.
Eric Dondero writes: “So, I’m a “Mercenary petitioner†according to Jake. Really? Guess that explains why I’m one of only a tiny handful of Libertarian Party petitioners who refuses to carry the Ralph Nader/Green Party petitions, like in Connecticut, where I could make twice as much money.”
Hmmmm You refuse to carry Nader Petitions but demand Nader’s Notaries hang around late into the evening long after their petitioners are finished for the day to notarize your petitions ? Sounds very self centered to me.
Come to think of it may be you are on the right team. Stay right where you are Eric.
Okay, well, my name finally came up in this argument. (Why do I keep coming up in controversies?), so I figure I’ll chime in real fast.
Dondero and Arenza were in Cincy, so they were also getting some sigs for us here in KY while he was there, since most people around here in Northern Kentucky work in Cincy.
As I recall, Eric was then called away to the emergencies in NH, and then CT. Eric and I had a discussion on another matter on his way to help with the emergency in CT.
I have my own thoughts on the matter, but will not post them here.
I will say this: Guys, please, chill out. We have enough enemies out there without eating our own.
Instead of having the “I’m more libertarian than you” penis-measuring contest, we should be out there supporting our party’s candidate, if for no other reason than it will help bring people around to our (more pure) viewpoint (eventually).
Instead of having this discussion in public, I would submit that privately reaching out to those of us who are LP state chairs about these issues and letting us know would be a much better way to let the decision-makers know, without airing dirty laundry that most people (other than state chairs and other petitioners) couldn’t give a damn about anyway.
We’re the “party of principle”, not the “party of exposing ourselves to everyone regardless if they want to see”. (Though I still think I like TANSTAAFL best).
PS. Barr on the ballot in KY; official today.
Uh huh. Disagreeing with E*** D****** R****** online is grounds for having my life endangered?
Interesting.
What goes around comes around, indeed.
Eric Dondero wrote: “Jakie Pooh references Gary Fincher. This is the same Fincher folks, who is an openly and bitter oponent of Bob Barr, and supporter of Renegade Libertarian Presidential candidate George Phillies.
Wow! Any guesses as to why someone like Sean Haugh or anyone else at the National LP for that matter, would be a teensy weensy bit skeptical of working with Gary Fincher?”
Um, Eric, you don’t know me so you aren’t entitled to put words in my mouth. Just because I am skeptical of Bob Barr’s libertarian “reawakening”, doesn’t mean that I’m an “open and bitter opponent”. I’d circulate to get him on the ballot (except that EXmight make Shane Cory look good, so why would I bother?). I also don’t know where you get that I’m a supporter of George Phillies (as a presidential candidate), since I’ve never publicly said yea or nay on the issue. I voted for Ruwart on all six ballots in Denver.
As for your last paragraph, why WOULD anyone be a “teensy” bit skeptical of working with someone who didn’t vote EXACTLY as they did at a political convention? Well, golly gee, I may have almost all the answersw, but I guess you stumped me on this one.
The Libertarian Party sure seems to have an extreme amount of petty arguments!
There are so many lies and misrepresentations in Eric’s emails that they are difficult to deal with.
Here’s one:
“…such as the Ralph Nader Fucks screwing over us Libertarians on the petitioning trail time and time again. I realize that’s not a politically correct “gentlemanly†thing to say, but it’s the goddamned truth, and it needs to be out there.”
No, Eric, it’s more terrible advice from you to Shane Cory that caused West Virginia to fail, you backstabbing infiltrator to the LP. I am fairly well convinced that the failure of WV was a combination of the lies you told to Shane, and Shane’s incompetence. It all comes into focus now.
Christina Tobin, the field coordinator for the Nader Campaign (and an IL LP member) offered weeks before the Barr campaign even started West Virginia to have her people carry Libertarian Party petitions, IF WE WOULD ALSO CARRY FOR NADER. Taking her up on this offer WOULD HAVE CUT THE COST OF THE BARR WV DRIVE IN HALF, AND DOUBLED THE NUMBER OF SIGNATURES WE GOT IN WV. CORY (FOLLOWING DONDERO’S RAVING LUNATIC ANTI-LEFTIST ADVICE) WAS AGAINST THE IDEA, AND LOST WEEKS OF NADER GATHERERS’ EFFORTS. Thank you, ERIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“The Libertarian Party sure seems to have an extreme amount of petty arguments!”
It may seem petty to you, but consider this: People make a lot of money petitioning. As such, they may consider petitioning to be (one of) their careers. As such, when someone is slandered, or defrauded and then slandered because they refuse to submit to injustice(doing work and not getting paid for it), that no longer becomes a petty argument, it becomes an argument of fraud or injustice, and as such, those who want such injustices out of our party are justified in defending their own self interest.
Eric is a time waster. This email was ten times longer than it is now, just dealing with unending his stream of distortions. If people want clarification of the events, please, call me, and ask questions. cell: 907-250-5503.
To Ken Moellman: I dealt with Eric for several months before he betrayed me. Count yourself lucky if you have not yet been betrayed by Eric. If he ever has a use for you that is best served by your betrayal, you will get to see the other face of Eric Dondero (whose other face is apparent as a complete lunatic online).
People who I know have been betrayed by Eric Dondero:
1) Ron Paul (TX-R-14)
2) Bruce Cohen, CA LP
3) myself (AK, IL LP)
4) Bryan Thompson (IL petitioner)
5) Zach Keeton (Stomp the ban, Anchorage, AK)
Again: Eric’s lies survive online because he types quickly and lies so much noone can keep up. He has learned the most important lesson of an agent provacateur: lie a lot, and mix in just enough truth to get people to believe it.
I can back up everything I say under questioning: 907-250-5503
I guess I’ll go through this and refute the lies in as much detail as possible, since the following post is Eric’s most grossly inaccurate post.
My comments will be in all caps for ease of separation from dondero’s comments, not for emphasis:
“Ahh, now we’re getting to the meat of the matter. Jake is even more disgruntled cause Shane Cory would not hire him as “Coordinator†for the West Virginia drive.”
YES, BECAUSE DOING SO WOULD HAVE SAVED THE WV DRIVE, THAT ERIC WAS INTENTIONALLY SABOTAGING, BEHIND THE SCENES. INTERESTINGLY, ERIC STAYED OUT OF WV, WHEN THEY DESPERATELY NEEDED PETITIONERS. SHANE HAD NO EXPERIENCE WITH RUNNING A DRIVE, AND WAS LISTENING TO ERIC, (BECAUSE HE HAD NO EXPERIENCE RUNNING A PETITION DRIVE).
“Folks, Jake has been aiming to be a “Coordinator†for years in this business. UNTRUE, ALTHOUGH I SOMETIMES FILL THAT POSITION WHEN THERE’S THE NEED AND EXTRA MONEY IN IT FOR ME. That’s his lifelong dream. YOU IDIOTIC BASTARD, WHAT DO YOU KNOW OF ANY “LIFELONG DREAM”, MUCH LESS MINE? THIS IS CLEARLY A COMMENT BASED ON ERIC EITHER BEING A COMPLETE MORON, OR ON KNOWING THAT THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE. Problem is he has the social skills of an Aadvarrk. YOU’RE ONE TO TALK! AND YOU ALSO CAN’T SPELL ANYTHING RIGHT TO SAVE YOUR LIFE. AMUSING FOR A SELF-DESCRIBED “LANGUAGE EXPERT”. The guy can’t seem to get along with anyone for any length of time. HMMM. INTERESTING. I GET ALONG WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WON’T TALK TO YOU ANY LONGER, LIKE BRUCE COHEN, OF THE CA LP, AND ANTHONY GARCIA OF THE TEXAS LP, AND ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE AK LP (MINUS YOUR OLD FRIEND KOHLHAAS, WHOM I HAVE SEVERED RELATIONS WITH, BECAUSE OF HIS DISHONEST ACTIONS). …INTERESTINGLY, THEY ARE ALL PEOPLE WHO NEVER DEFRAUDED ME. I COULD NAME A LONG LIST OF ADDITIONAL PEOPLE, BUT THEY ARE NOT THE CROWD IN POWER AT THE NATIONAL LP HQ RIGHT NOW.
I USED TO GET ALONG WITH BILL REDPATH, BEFORE HE DECIDED NOT TO FIRE THE FRAUDSTERS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 2008 DRIVE. MINUS OUR DISAGREEMENT ON WHETHER THAT WAS WISE, I THINK REDPATH IS STILL A COMPETENT AND HONEST GUY WHO SPEAKS THE LANGUAGE OF LOGIC AND REASON.
SO WHOM DO I NOT GET ALONG WITH, ERIC? THE INFANTILE SEAN HAUGH? GUILTY AS CHARGED. I NEVER DID GET ALONG WITH HIM. SHANE CORY? I GOT ALONG WITH HIM BEFORE HE WAS PROMOTED BEYOND HIS LEVEL OF COMPETENCE (ALTHOUGH I HAD LITTLE TO DO WITH HIM.)
Jake is a fantastic petitioner. THIS FOLLOWS THE PATTERN: JUST ENOUGH TRUTH SO THAT PEOPLE WILL BUY INTO THE LIE Head-to-head, when he’s motivated, he’s a better petitioner than me. EVERYONE IS, SINCE YOU LOVE TO BLATHER ABOUT HOW EVIL THE LEFTISTS ARE, TO FELLOW “REPUBLICANS” WHILE YOU WORK. But Coordinator material he is not. AS IF YOU WOULD KNOW, SINCE YOU’VE NEVER BEEN A COORDINATOR IN ANY CAPACITY. I ALSO WILL POINT OUT THAT YOUR OLD BOSS, RON PAUL, (WHO FIRED YOU) HIRED ME IN IL, AND THEN REHIRED ME IN INDIANA IN 2007 AND 2008.
I’ve witnessed Jake trying to “Sub-Coordinate†some drives in Western States like Oregon. He was a disaster. YOU WITNESSED NO SUCH THING. NOT TO MENTION, I MADE MONEY, AND PAUL JACOB DIDN’T TELL ME THERE WAS ANY PROBLEM (BEYOND A MINOR UNDESIRED RENTAL CAR EXPENSE FOR INSURANCE THAT INCREASED MY PER-SIG COST). I THINK THAT OUR EMPLOYER WOULD HAVE COMPLAINED TO ME A BIT, IF THERE WAS A PROBLEM. A double disaster, cause he ended up spending 3/4ths of his time on the cell phone “coordinating†his underling petitioners off the street, and not gathering signatures himself. BUT THE NUMBERS I GOT WERE GOOD AND IT WAS WORTHWHILE TO ALL PARTIES INVOLVED, UNLESS I’M WRONG. IF I’M WRONG, THEN P.J., PLEASE CALL ME AND SET ME STRAIGHT. I ALSO BELIEVE I AND MY TEAM COLLECTED MORE SIGNATURES THAN ERIC DID ON THOSE DRIVES, ALTHOUGH I MIGHT BE WRONG ABOUT THAT. ALSO, IF I’M WRONG, THEN WHY WOULD THE PEOPLE IN MONTANA HAVE RECOMMENDED ME AS A PETITION COORDINATOR TO THEIR LOCAL VOLUNTEERS, WHEN I WAS WORKING FOR YOUR OLD BOSS, RON PAUL?
Jake, again, get back to being a great petitioner like you were before. WELL, I WOULD, BUT YOU’VE BEEN SPREADING LIES AND SLANDER ABOUT ME THAT MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR ME TO GET EMPLOYED ON THOSE RARE OCCASIONS THAT I WANT TO PETITION/COORDINATE. (THERE IS NO PROPER DISTINCTION BETWEEN “PETITIONER” AND “COORDINATOR” FOR THOSE WHO CAN DO BOTH, WHEN THE NEED EXISTS. TITLES ARE USED TO PROTECT THOSE WHO ARE INCOMPETENT AT ONE OR THE OTHER.) And forget this “Coordinating†nonsense. You suck at it. GO TO HELL, ERIC, YOU LYIN’ BACKSTABBER. You don’t suck at petitioning. LIKE YOU DO? We want the old Jake back. WHO IS “WE”? OH YEAH, THE GUYS WHO GAVE YOU YOUR OPINION, THE GUYS WRITING YOUR PAYCHECK, SEAN HAUGH, SCOTT KOHLHAAS, SHANE CORY, RUSSELL VERNEY, …THE GUYS WHO HAVE GOTTEN THE LP INTO THIS MESS BY DEFRAUDING THE LONGTIME LIBERTARIAN ACTIVISTS (WHICH DOESN’T INCLUDE THE BIG “R” REPUBLICAN ‘AGENT PROVACATEUR’ ERIC DONDERO)The libertarian movement desperately needs your significant petition gathering skills. BUT NOT ENOUGH THAT SEAN HAUGH DECIDED TO USE THEM IN CT, WHERE THEY WERE “DESPERATELY NEEDED”. APPARENTLY, AFTER HIS SUBORDINATE ASSISTANT (AND COMPETENCY-BASED SUPERIOR)–SCOTT KOHLHAAS– HIRED ME, AND THEN DODGED MY PHONE CALLS, LEAVING ME IN THE LURCH WITHOUT KNOWING IF I WAS HIRED OR NOT, WITH THE CLOCK TICKING ON MY RENTAL CAR. THIS IS JUST ONE PART OF ERIC’S STORY THAT DOESN’T ADD UP, BUT THAT IS DIFFICULT FOR THOSE UNINVOLVED WITH THE PETITIONING PROCESS TO UNDERSTAND.
IN SHORT, ERIC IS A LIAR AND DISINFORMATION PROPAGANDIST, PAR EXCELLENCE. HE FITS RIGHT IN WITH THE DEN OF VIPERS THE LP’S UPPER MANAGEMENT HAS BECOME.
Note: I still have not been paid the $3,106.77 I am owed for my completed work in WV. I’m going to suggest that my lawyer contact McCain’s lawyers tomorrow, and that they personally sue Shane Cory and Russell Verney. If the LP doesn’t mind just openly defrauding the people who work for it, then they are no longer my party, and I am once again, “Politically Homeless”.
Even if that happens, Eric Dondero can go to hell, and anyone who trusts him does so at their own peril. Normally it’s good to reserve judgement about someone, but just naming off the people Eric has defrauded or betrayed, it’s pretty clear that he’s either a sociopath, somehow mentally diseased, or a Republican agent provacateur. Since he admits to being a “Republican” I’d guess it’s a mix of all three.
Best of luck to all who have an unhealthy interest in getting to the truth in this mess. If my answering questions will help, then call me up
907-250-5503. I promise to be civil, and not to use the words that Eric Dondero makes me think of. -Jake Witmer
darren Says:
August 11th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
“Between Witmer and Dondero I was getting concerned the LP was about to melt down, but then I realized I was reading a script for the sequel to Glengarry Glen Ross. Both of you “friends†need a more constructive outlet for your bile.”
–First, Eric Dondero is no “friend” of mine. If you read that online, it’s long outdated. I gave him a second chance, because I agreed with certain parts of what he said, but he has been nothing but a betrayer of any trust I gave him, both philosophically, and financially.
In writing all of this, I was hoping to avoid a less destructive outlet for my “bile”, in the hopes that the people who still have not paid me for my work in WV will shell out the $3,106.77 that they still owe me for services rendered.
After all, when the lawyers start suing, it is often too late to achieve a positive result.
Sadly, I went out to save ballot access for WV, and Russell Verney and Shane Cory prevented me from doing that. Verney seems to want to blame me for not agreeing to an extra-contractual “daily turn in” during the last week in WV. As a reason for the turn-in, he stated that “I need to know if it’s realistic for us to succeed, so I can determine whether or not to pull the plug on this thing”. –Indicating that if I turned in daily, he would sabotage my continued employment, after his stooge broke every aspect of our written contract! Did they ever have any intention of putting WV on the ballot? (As if cutting into my petitioning day would have gotten me any more signatures, and as if one petitioner could be responsible for a drive failing. …All pure BS.)
Well, if the funds are not in my account tomorrow, I’ll be spending the money that the more libertarian candidates (the ones that honor their contracts, like Independent Ralph Nader, and the Constitution Party) paid me in order to sue the Barr Campaign, Verney, Cory, etc…
Sorry if you think my “bile” is not well spent on securing payment for work I have done. That said, the LP is close to my heart, and I cannot allow the people who have so destroyed it to maintain their positions of power in 2012, when we will likely have a more responsible “top of ticket” candidate than we currently have.
I have never heard from Barr regarding this matter, but there are some glaring inconsistencies for anyone who thinks that Shane Cory is justified in withholding payment from me, or for anyone who thinks the failure of WV was my fault:
1) Why didn’t Shane bring in the additional petitioners I wanted to bring in?
2) Why didn’t Shane allow me to solve his problems for him? (There is an answer here, the agent provacateur Dondero told him not to trust using me as a “coordinator”, and the Shane actually listened to him.) Personally, if a drive is floundering, I would think that advice about how to save it would be welcome from anyone who clearly displayed compentence, of course, Shane wasn’t competent enough to ask enough questions to get to the bottom of things, until he had sabotaged all chance of success and pissed all over me.
At that point (after he had sent all of my petitioners away, or interfered with getting them into the state), he once told me something to the effect of “we’ve got a few more petitioners arriving tomorrow”.
At that point, I think I replied something to the effect of: “Why tell me about it?”
After all, getting treated like dirt, and having a moronic middleman ruin everything you try to do only goes so far. WV never had a chance of being on the ballot, with Shane Cory and Russell Verney running things. That Verney still has apparently decided to withhold payment from me out of spite reveals he is a shild in a man’s body.
BTW: Did Ross Perot give him around $50,000,000 to work with? With that kind of money, my local garbage man could run a serious nationwide political campaign.
Plain and simple: Russell Verney does not deserve his rep, because he defers to simpletons like Cory, and then tries to solve every problem with threats and petty retaliation.