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	<title>Comments on: D.C. Likely to Get a Voting Member of U.S. House in 2009</title>
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		<title>By: Jim Riley</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/11/07/dc-likely-to-get-a-voting-member-of-us-house-in-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-566399</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 17:11:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=4287#comment-566399</guid>
		<description>The Constitution says that there should not be &lt;i&gt;more&lt;/i&gt; than one representative per 30,000.  This was the basis for the first presidential veto of a bill passed by Congress.  George Washington was advised by his Secretary of State, Thomas Jefferson, that the apportionment bill passed following the 1790 Census violated the Constitution.

It provided that the apportionment population of each State (including the 3/5 adjustment for slaves) be divided by a quota, and then rounded to a whole number.  Thus a state nominally entitled to 1.7 representative would have received 2.  But it also meant that even if a quota greater than 30,000 were used, that some State&#039;s would have a population/representative less than 30,000.  In particular, this veto cost Delaware a second representative.  The apportionment bill that Congress then passed provided for truncation of any excess fraction (including 0.99).

It wasn&#039;t until the population had grown substantially and a quota much larger than 30,000 was used, that the apportionment bill provided for a rounding mechanism.

The &quot;Wyoming Rule&quot; would have been known as the &quot;Nevada Rule&quot; until 1960, when it would have become the &quot;Alaska Rule&quot; until 1990, when it became the &quot;Wyoming Rule&quot;.  In 1900 this rule would have resulted in a House of Representatives of over 1800 members.  This would have decreased to 1100+ in 1910 after a mining boom in Nevada, and then increased to almost 1400 after the subsequent bust.  Since that time the size of the House would have gradually declined to roughly 550 in 1990, with a slight increase since then.  Since the Wyoming population is heavily dependent on natural resources, particularly coal and oil, its population is particularly subject to rapid population changes, which could mean dramatic changes in the size of the House, until the rule becomes known as the &quot;Vermont Rule&quot;.

Incidentally, the 7 States with a single representative are collectively entitled to about 7.5.

There is an observation that legislative bodies tend to have a number of members that is about equal to the cube root of the population.  For the USA this would require a House of Representatives of around 670, or an increase of more than 50%.  This could provide a solution to the DC problem.  If we are going to have to build a new capitol to accomodate the huge influx of representatives.  Maryland accepts retrocession of DC, or the capital moves to a more central location.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Constitution says that there should not be <i>more</i> than one representative per 30,000.  This was the basis for the first presidential veto of a bill passed by Congress.  George Washington was advised by his Secretary of State, Thomas Jefferson, that the apportionment bill passed following the 1790 Census violated the Constitution.</p>
<p>It provided that the apportionment population of each State (including the 3/5 adjustment for slaves) be divided by a quota, and then rounded to a whole number.  Thus a state nominally entitled to 1.7 representative would have received 2.  But it also meant that even if a quota greater than 30,000 were used, that some State&#8217;s would have a population/representative less than 30,000.  In particular, this veto cost Delaware a second representative.  The apportionment bill that Congress then passed provided for truncation of any excess fraction (including 0.99).</p>
<p>It wasn&#8217;t until the population had grown substantially and a quota much larger than 30,000 was used, that the apportionment bill provided for a rounding mechanism.</p>
<p>The &#8220;Wyoming Rule&#8221; would have been known as the &#8220;Nevada Rule&#8221; until 1960, when it would have become the &#8220;Alaska Rule&#8221; until 1990, when it became the &#8220;Wyoming Rule&#8221;.  In 1900 this rule would have resulted in a House of Representatives of over 1800 members.  This would have decreased to 1100+ in 1910 after a mining boom in Nevada, and then increased to almost 1400 after the subsequent bust.  Since that time the size of the House would have gradually declined to roughly 550 in 1990, with a slight increase since then.  Since the Wyoming population is heavily dependent on natural resources, particularly coal and oil, its population is particularly subject to rapid population changes, which could mean dramatic changes in the size of the House, until the rule becomes known as the &#8220;Vermont Rule&#8221;.</p>
<p>Incidentally, the 7 States with a single representative are collectively entitled to about 7.5.</p>
<p>There is an observation that legislative bodies tend to have a number of members that is about equal to the cube root of the population.  For the USA this would require a House of Representatives of around 670, or an increase of more than 50%.  This could provide a solution to the DC problem.  If we are going to have to build a new capitol to accomodate the huge influx of representatives.  Maryland accepts retrocession of DC, or the capital moves to a more central location.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/11/07/dc-likely-to-get-a-voting-member-of-us-house-in-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-566025</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 19:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=4287#comment-566025</guid>
		<description>I remember reading up on the fact that our House is way &quot;under-represented&quot; in the sense that, compared to European countries for example, our House hasn&#039;t become as &quot;representative&quot; as it should be. Remember, our Constitution says that there should be 1 Representative for each 30,000 people. Now, I understand that we&#039;d have 1,000 odd Representatives today but we can use the &quot;Wyoming Rule&quot;. What&#039;s the &quot;Wyoming Rule&quot;? It&#039;s basically a rule that uses the least populous state&#039;s population as the quota. So, let&#039;s say that Wyoming has 500,000 people and there are 300 million people nationwide, the quota would be 500,000 people. That would mean that we&#039;d have a House of 600 members.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember reading up on the fact that our House is way &#8220;under-represented&#8221; in the sense that, compared to European countries for example, our House hasn&#8217;t become as &#8220;representative&#8221; as it should be. Remember, our Constitution says that there should be 1 Representative for each 30,000 people. Now, I understand that we&#8217;d have 1,000 odd Representatives today but we can use the &#8220;Wyoming Rule&#8221;. What&#8217;s the &#8220;Wyoming Rule&#8221;? It&#8217;s basically a rule that uses the least populous state&#8217;s population as the quota. So, let&#8217;s say that Wyoming has 500,000 people and there are 300 million people nationwide, the quota would be 500,000 people. That would mean that we&#8217;d have a House of 600 members.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Riley</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/11/07/dc-likely-to-get-a-voting-member-of-us-house-in-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-565952</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 17:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=4287#comment-565952</guid>
		<description>US citizens resident in the District of Columbia should be permitted to vote in federal elections of the State of their choosing, with an option for each State to extend suffrage for state and legislative elections.

For apportionment purposes, the population of the District should be allocated on a pro rata basis according to the voter registrations by District citizens.

Congress, in cooperation with the States, should provide voting facilities, both for registration, and actual voting within the District.

For the purpose of elections of US representatives (by district), the 48 non-adjacent States shall treat their DC voters as being resident at their State capitol, or optionally based on the location of last residence within the State.

States adjacent to the district shall treat the district as if it were within their territorial jurisdiction, and any congressional district must include the entire district.

Congress shall provide that no presidential electors be appointed under terms of the 23rd  Amendment.

Transition.  Registration may begin immediately, and DC voters may participate in all federal elections after January 1st, 2010.  An initial reapportionment based on the 2000 Census and 435 representatives shall be made on that date.  No State may lose representative.  

If a State gains a representative, they may re-district for the 2010 election, or alternatively provide for a district exclusively for its DC voters.  In the latter case, a vacancy is deemed to exist, and the governor of the State shall issue writes of election.
==================================================
Following the cession of the territory that became the District of Columbia, by Maryland, Congress provided that residents could continue to vote in Maryland and Virginia elections, including those for US representatives and presidential electors.

When the government moved to Washington, it was by omission that the right to vote was terminated.  

Congress has provided that residents of federal enclaves may vote in State elections, and included them in apportionment populations.  They have not always done so.  This is a discretionary act of Congress.

Congress has provided that former residents of States who reside outside the limits of the United States and its territores may vote in federal elections in their last State residence.  It also has included some of these persons and their dependents in apportionment populations (military and civilian employees of the US government, along with their dependents).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>US citizens resident in the District of Columbia should be permitted to vote in federal elections of the State of their choosing, with an option for each State to extend suffrage for state and legislative elections.</p>
<p>For apportionment purposes, the population of the District should be allocated on a pro rata basis according to the voter registrations by District citizens.</p>
<p>Congress, in cooperation with the States, should provide voting facilities, both for registration, and actual voting within the District.</p>
<p>For the purpose of elections of US representatives (by district), the 48 non-adjacent States shall treat their DC voters as being resident at their State capitol, or optionally based on the location of last residence within the State.</p>
<p>States adjacent to the district shall treat the district as if it were within their territorial jurisdiction, and any congressional district must include the entire district.</p>
<p>Congress shall provide that no presidential electors be appointed under terms of the 23rd  Amendment.</p>
<p>Transition.  Registration may begin immediately, and DC voters may participate in all federal elections after January 1st, 2010.  An initial reapportionment based on the 2000 Census and 435 representatives shall be made on that date.  No State may lose representative.  </p>
<p>If a State gains a representative, they may re-district for the 2010 election, or alternatively provide for a district exclusively for its DC voters.  In the latter case, a vacancy is deemed to exist, and the governor of the State shall issue writes of election.<br />
==================================================<br />
Following the cession of the territory that became the District of Columbia, by Maryland, Congress provided that residents could continue to vote in Maryland and Virginia elections, including those for US representatives and presidential electors.</p>
<p>When the government moved to Washington, it was by omission that the right to vote was terminated.  </p>
<p>Congress has provided that residents of federal enclaves may vote in State elections, and included them in apportionment populations.  They have not always done so.  This is a discretionary act of Congress.</p>
<p>Congress has provided that former residents of States who reside outside the limits of the United States and its territores may vote in federal elections in their last State residence.  It also has included some of these persons and their dependents in apportionment populations (military and civilian employees of the US government, along with their dependents).</p>
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		<title>By: Deemer from California</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/11/07/dc-likely-to-get-a-voting-member-of-us-house-in-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-565946</link>
		<dc:creator>Deemer from California</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 17:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=4287#comment-565946</guid>
		<description>It would be interesting to see if you&#039;re able to find
sponsors for your proposed amendment. Placing a limit
of 7 seems unworkable to me because Puerto Rico&#039;s
population of 3.8+ million should entitle it to 6
House seats in the 2010 Census. It would probably work
out better to increase the size of the House to say
449 members. That would also take care of re-alignment
should one or more of these dependencies one day vote
to become a full fledged State. Also, it looks to me
that everwhere &quot;territory&quot; appears it would be better
to use &quot;dependency&quot; instead since they have differing
status with regards to the Federal Government. Finally,
the part about repealing the 23rd Amendment should be
reworked to just say that it is amended to include all
of the dependencies not just the District of Columbia &amp;
it should be referenced as the Amendment passed by the
Congress by date not number. There are some who argue
that there is one more Amendment to the Constituion and
should that ever be accepted as being valid then using
a number in your Amendment you could introduce a mess
into the Constitution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be interesting to see if you&#8217;re able to find<br />
sponsors for your proposed amendment. Placing a limit<br />
of 7 seems unworkable to me because Puerto Rico&#8217;s<br />
population of 3.8+ million should entitle it to 6<br />
House seats in the 2010 Census. It would probably work<br />
out better to increase the size of the House to say<br />
449 members. That would also take care of re-alignment<br />
should one or more of these dependencies one day vote<br />
to become a full fledged State. Also, it looks to me<br />
that everwhere &#8220;territory&#8221; appears it would be better<br />
to use &#8220;dependency&#8221; instead since they have differing<br />
status with regards to the Federal Government. Finally,<br />
the part about repealing the 23rd Amendment should be<br />
reworked to just say that it is amended to include all<br />
of the dependencies not just the District of Columbia &amp;<br />
it should be referenced as the Amendment passed by the<br />
Congress by date not number. There are some who argue<br />
that there is one more Amendment to the Constituion and<br />
should that ever be accepted as being valid then using<br />
a number in your Amendment you could introduce a mess<br />
into the Constitution.</p>
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		<title>By: Coming back to the LP</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/11/07/dc-likely-to-get-a-voting-member-of-us-house-in-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-565886</link>
		<dc:creator>Coming back to the LP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 14:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=4287#comment-565886</guid>
		<description>NE Says: 
November 7th, 2008 at 4:28 pm 
&quot;Lemur, I think the solution is simple: redraw the boundaries of the federal governmentâ€™s capital to only include its main buildings (e.g. the White House, the capitol building, etc). Then the rest of what is currently Washington D.C. could be admitted as the 51st state.&quot;


Or, better yet, redraw the boundries and give the inhabited bulk of DC back to Maryland.  It was taken from Maryland and now is the time to give it back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NE Says:<br />
November 7th, 2008 at 4:28 pm<br />
&#8220;Lemur, I think the solution is simple: redraw the boundaries of the federal governmentâ€™s capital to only include its main buildings (e.g. the White House, the capitol building, etc). Then the rest of what is currently Washington D.C. could be admitted as the 51st state.&#8221;</p>
<p>Or, better yet, redraw the boundries and give the inhabited bulk of DC back to Maryland.  It was taken from Maryland and now is the time to give it back.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross Levin</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/11/07/dc-likely-to-get-a-voting-member-of-us-house-in-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-565794</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 05:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=4287#comment-565794</guid>
		<description>This would make a Green getting into Congress much more likely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This would make a Green getting into Congress much more likely.</p>
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		<title>By: citizens1</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/11/07/dc-likely-to-get-a-voting-member-of-us-house-in-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-565671</link>
		<dc:creator>citizens1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 00:54:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=4287#comment-565671</guid>
		<description>Wouldn&#039;t this just give lobbiest thier own congressman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t this just give lobbiest thier own congressman.</p>
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		<title>By: NE</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/11/07/dc-likely-to-get-a-voting-member-of-us-house-in-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-565664</link>
		<dc:creator>NE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 00:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=4287#comment-565664</guid>
		<description>Lemur, I think the solution is simple: redraw the boundaries of the federal government&#039;s capital to only include its main buildings (e.g. the White House, the capitol building, etc). Then the rest of what is currently Washington D.C. could be admitted as the 51st state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lemur, I think the solution is simple: redraw the boundaries of the federal government&#8217;s capital to only include its main buildings (e.g. the White House, the capitol building, etc). Then the rest of what is currently Washington D.C. could be admitted as the 51st state.</p>
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		<title>By: Demo Rep</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/11/07/dc-likely-to-get-a-voting-member-of-us-house-in-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-565662</link>
		<dc:creator>Demo Rep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 00:13:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=4287#comment-565662</guid>
		<description>#15 - Once upon a time getting rid of slavery was thought impossible.

The U.S.A. Senate gerrymander regime is THE most UNREPRESENTATIVE legislative body in the U.S.A.

The U.S.A. regime is now like the last years of the Roman Republic regime -- before it rotted into the Roman Empire in 27 B.C. -- due to the TYRANT Augustus Caesar.
-------
Uniform definition of Elector in All of the U.S.A.

P.R. for ALL legislative bodies
A.V. for NONPARTISAN executive/judical officers

Democracy NOW -- before the EVIL powermad control freaks cause World War III and/or Civil War II to happen.

See the business- as- usual 1854 Kansas-Nebraska Act in the gerrymander Congress -- one more attempted *fix* for the system.

Result - Horrific Civil WAR in 1861-1865. 

13th, 14th and 15th Amendments -- Cost -- about 620,000 DEAD Americans on both sides -- with multi-thousands physically and mentally maimed for life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#15 &#8211; Once upon a time getting rid of slavery was thought impossible.</p>
<p>The U.S.A. Senate gerrymander regime is THE most UNREPRESENTATIVE legislative body in the U.S.A.</p>
<p>The U.S.A. regime is now like the last years of the Roman Republic regime &#8212; before it rotted into the Roman Empire in 27 B.C. &#8212; due to the TYRANT Augustus Caesar.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
Uniform definition of Elector in All of the U.S.A.</p>
<p>P.R. for ALL legislative bodies<br />
A.V. for NONPARTISAN executive/judical officers</p>
<p>Democracy NOW &#8212; before the EVIL powermad control freaks cause World War III and/or Civil War II to happen.</p>
<p>See the business- as- usual 1854 Kansas-Nebraska Act in the gerrymander Congress &#8212; one more attempted *fix* for the system.</p>
<p>Result &#8211; Horrific Civil WAR in 1861-1865. </p>
<p>13th, 14th and 15th Amendments &#8212; Cost &#8212; about 620,000 DEAD Americans on both sides &#8212; with multi-thousands physically and mentally maimed for life.</p>
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		<title>By: lemur</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/11/07/dc-likely-to-get-a-voting-member-of-us-house-in-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-565661</link>
		<dc:creator>lemur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 00:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=4287#comment-565661</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not positive, but I don&#039;t believe citizens in territories excluding DC are income taxed.  But regardless, personally I find it antithetical to a democratic nation to have citizens who are entirely disenfranchised.  Maybe territories still shouldn&#039;t be taxed even with House representation, especially if they don&#039;t have representation in the Senate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not positive, but I don&#8217;t believe citizens in territories excluding DC are income taxed.  But regardless, personally I find it antithetical to a democratic nation to have citizens who are entirely disenfranchised.  Maybe territories still shouldn&#8217;t be taxed even with House representation, especially if they don&#8217;t have representation in the Senate.</p>
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