On December 13, California released its official vote tally from the November 2008 election. The most suspense concerned the write-in candidates for president. Ron Paul’s slate of presidential elector candidates received 17,006 write-ins. Chuck Baldwin received 3,145. James Harris for the Socialist Workers Party received 49, and Frank Moore (independent who lives in Berkeley, California) received 36. No one else had filed for write-in status for president.
These figures, and the final figures for the ballot-listed candidates, will be incorporated into the national presidential vote chart (above) on Tuesday evening.
Interesting.
Alan Keyes and the AIP received about twice as many votes as Ron Paul and Chuck Baldwin combined, and about 14,000 more votes than Michael Peroutka received four years ago.
AIP’s CA voter registrations have undergone a sharp rise in recent months as well, I’m told.
Twice as many as a ballot listed than a write-in. Wow that’s impressive.
You are a moron Tom.
Tom,
From the CA SOS registration data
AIP October, 2008 370,405 registered voters
October, 2004 326,763 registered voters
13.4% increase from 4 years ago
In comparison the total registration increased only 4.5%
Citizen1,
I suspect you already know how much I appreciate your intelligent and articulate contribution to this discussion.
Personally, I think Chuck Baldwin’s performance was quite good, all things considered. And Ron Paul certainly has a loyal following.
Thanks for the info, Steve.
Tom is delusional. Comparing ballot-listed candidates and write-in candidates is apples to oranges. The fact that he can compare them at all means that either the write-in candidates did excellent, or Keyes did abysmally–it’s a tad of both, all things considering.
Keyes scored only 47,000 votes and was on the ballot in three states–one of which was California, the CP’s best state in terms of votes.
I could say that “Baldwin was the better candidate because he got 4 times the votes”–but that really wouldnt be fair, because Baldwin was on so many more ballots, and Keyes is a nationally known/prominent figure. Keyes’ name has national recognition, he’s hosted a nationwide radio show, a tv show, was an appointed ambassador, and has been the Republican Party Senate nominee on 3 occasions in 2 seperate states. Baldwin, is just an internet columnist, preacher, and talk radio show host (Not national, mind you).
So what is fair? Comparing the states only where both candidates are BALLOT LISTED or where both candidates are WRITE INS.
In this regard, Baldwin blows Keyes away.
Both were ballot-listed in CO–and Baldwin scored twice as many votes
Both were ballot-listed in FL–and Baldwin recieved more than 3 times as many votes.
Both were write-ins in PA–and Baldwin scored more than 25 times the votes that Keyes did.
Both were write-ins in TX–and Baldwin scored more than 6 times the votes that Keyes did.
There is no comparison here. Baldwin was the better candidate. And the fact that Alan Keyes took in almost half-a-million dollars for his campaign but only got on 3 state ballots (one of which was stolen, the other two cost only $1000) tells you something about the Keyes operation.
And while we certainly appreciate that registration rose (at a normal level, mind you)–it wont matter in a couple of months. The CPers will take back the AIP, by court or by election law.
Congratulations on your 2500 votes in Louisiana, Trent.
There were three counties in California that did NOT count the write in votes for either Chuck Baldwin or Ron Paul. Their totals should not be considered complete…
Del Norte County, Mono County and San Benito County.
County officials should do their job and count officially registered and certified write in candidates which both Paul and Baldwin were.
It really does seem unrealistic to compare the votes of candidates who are on the ballot with those who are simply official write-in candidates.
For example, percentage wise, Utah and Idaho were the top two performing states for Baldwin. Alaska, South Dakota and Wyoming were the next three top performing states but any Keyes votes were not counted in those three states.
In Utah Baldwin received 12,012 votes (1.26%) and Keyes received 25 write-in votes. In Idaho voters gave Baldwin 4,747 votes (0.72%) and 40 votes for Keyes. In Wyoming, a state where Baldwin was on the ballot as an Independent candidate, he received 1,192 votes or (0.47%). (The CP missed the ballot qualification deadline for party status there so Baldwin had to run as an Independent)
It is interesting that these states gave Baldwin a significant vote in spite of the fact that Baldwin was a Baptist who many said was anti LDS. UT, ID and WY (percentage wise) are the three most heavily Mormon populated states in the nation. If the LDS people really thought that Baldwin was unfavorable toward them, they don’t seem to have let it affect their support for him. When that was brought to my attention, I was quite surprised but have to give the Mormons credit for supporting a good man for the office of
president. At least somebody seems to be doing their homework.
And the joke ticket at the DFW court ordered, court monitored ‘national convention’ of Deform Party /Reform Party USA slate Weill – McNulty! Citizens For A Better Veterans Home was able to help get this ‘science experience gone horribly wrong’ off of the Kansas and Louisianna ballots.
I usually say that ‘more candidates, more democracy’ but we consider this the exception that ‘proves’ the rule……….
DonLake@ymail.com
and in the Heart Land/ KCMO:
FunkhouserRecall@yahoogroups.com
Trent,
Thank you for the analysis of the comparable states.
As for my comment in #2 I apologize to the readers (not to Tom). I usually do not resort to name calling in these forums but I have come to the point of realizing it is useless to use logic or facts with Tom.
“Congratulations on your 2500 votes in Louisiana, Trent.”
My 2500? You probably havent heard I quit the CP. I placed Ron Paul on the ballot and scored 10,000 votes.
Congrats on not being able to make the ballot in the easiest state in the Union. LA requires $500 and 9 elector’s forms–you guys could manage that?
Tom cannot debate facts citizen1, nor can his employer-Mr. Keyes. Both will change the subject in a desperate attempt to set up strawmen.
analyzing Third Aprty results- UPDATED-
http://www.nolanchart.com/article5411.html
I am very suprised that Ron Paul got that many votes in CA. That’s even more than he got in MT, where he was on the ballot.
You a sophomore yet, Trent?
“You a sophomore yet, Trent?”
See? Hoefling cant respond to criticism in a manner that actually ADDRESSES the criticism, he shifts the goalposts.
For those interested–I’m a junior in College. If that disproves my criticism, fine–but it doesnt.
When I was a delegate to the Constitution Party convention in 08, I was one of the few delegates willing to listen to Keyes on his many conference calls and even go up to his room to listen to his self-important pontificating. After an hour or so, he had avoided 2 questions and answered one softball-question. I got up and left and Tom chased me down the hall. He cursed at me, called me “a prick”, “a twit”, “arrogant kid”. All of this while his candidate’s future hung in the balance. All of this to someone, who was indeed young, who controlled all of Louisiana’s 9 votes at the convention. After attempting to berrate me in public, calling me names, and then pleading with me for forgiveness—he tried to get me to vote for Keyes later.
I proudly voted for Baldwin and then quit the Constitution Party–but it was satisfying to see Keyes leave the party (actually,he never joined) right after the convention. Although he raised over half a million dollars, he got on only 3 state ballots and recieved only 47,000 votes (40,000 of which were gained by stealing the CP’s CA affilliate). Did that money line your pockets, Tom, or Alan’s?
Considering the high percentage of bickering, name calling and one-up-manship its not wonder that America continues to elect candidates based upon the MSM presentation. I’ve noticed some of the same (sic) authors here are often found bickering on other CP and Lib sites. For f#ck sake, trying graduating from 3rd grade. This country will NEVER move forward without people from the third parties learning to give a little.
Trent, you’re one of the most arrogant, disrespectful young men I’ve ever met. I’ve never seen anyone in politics act as poorly as you acted in Kansas City.
In the hundreds of events I’ve managed over many years, you’re the only person I’ve ever had to physically remove from the room, in fact.
Ron Paul has my sympathies.
By the way, you’re also a liar. Your post is a load of hooey.
rokdevil, you have my apologies. I rarely engage in this sort of thing. Life’s way too short. However, this young man has been all over these boards slandering good folks for months. I’m sick of it, and will answer him when I feel like it.
“Trent, you’re one of the most arrogant, disrespectful young men I’ve ever met. I’ve never seen anyone in politics act as poorly as you acted in Kansas City.
In the hundreds of events I’ve managed over many years, you’re the only person I’ve ever had to physically remove from the room, in fact. ”
I’ll admit to being disrespectful to Keyes after he intentionally ducked and dodged several CPers questions and then derided them an uneducated and “not realistic”. I rolled my eyes repeatedly at his neoconnery. As for how I acted in Kansas City, it’s funny you say that I acted poorly after you apologized for your behavior and pleaded with me to vote for Alan Keyes.
And you definetly did NOT remove me from any room. I walked into that room of my own volition, and left the same way. You cought up with me before I got onto the elevator, then insisted on getting on the same elevator, then followed me downstairs and insisted we talk outside. I had several witnesses during these things, chief among them Sean McKay and Schuyler Reidel. Randall Stufflebeam, too, cought some of it.
As for my work for Ron Paul–I must be doing alright, they’ve asked me to be District 6 coordinator for CFL and Southeast Regional Director for YAL. We got him 10,000 votes here in LA and almost won the caucus for him here–Keyes did not compete in either.
If anyone would like to vet my story, they can place a simple call to anyone present at the convention who wasn’t in Keyes’ pocket. Even those who were sympathetic to Keyes, like Stufflebeam, Sean McKay, Gary Odom, and others were all very pissed off with both Keyes and (especially) Tom Hoefling by the end of the weekend for their arrogant, aloof, ridiculous treatment of the CP that weekend. I maintain to this day that had Keyes come in and acted politely, instead of with hostility, and followed the advice given to him by CP-insiders, he could’ve won.
I even tried to help Tom Hoefling out by urging him to send out an email to Keyes’ LA activists (of which there were about 100, by my memory) asking them to try to attend the NatConv. That’s right, I was trying to HELP them get more delegates–but Hoefling couldnt even do that.
“Trent, you’re one of the most arrogant, disrespectful young men I’ve ever met. ”
I dont treat crooks with respect. Nor neocons war-mongering liars. Especially those who cuss me out or look down on me because I am young. You fall under every category.
Keyes paid himself 100,000 a year out of his campaign funds, sometihng that is unheard of–even in the corrupt world of politics. His campaign’s have written tens of thousands in bad checks. And his campaigns always end up owing hundreds of thousands in debt–which go unpaid for YEARS.
And you’re on the bankroll Tom.
I could write an entire article (and just might,actually) about the bad experiences CPers had with Tom Hoefling and Alan Keyes. I’m sure RedPhillips would help, too. I wont, because I’m not that vindictive–but it IS a shame to see good people give away good money to crooks. The same way I want to stop con-men, I want to stop Keyes and Hoefling.
Wow. Four posts of pure fiction.
Again, I’d invite Mr. Hoefling to refute the facts I cited comparing Baldwin and Keyes head to head and why he thinks comparing Keyes’ stolen ballot-line in AIP to Baldwin’s write-in status is the best way to compare the candidates?
You talk in such a way that some few folks ignorant of the actual events might buy into. But it’s pure fiction.
And you have no clue what’s going on in California. Your words make that quite clear.
If you knew even a tiny fraction as much as you think you do, you’d be dangerous.
“Wow. Four posts of pure fiction.”
Oh?
“KEYES USING DONATIONS TO DRAW SALARY: MD. GOP NOMINEE GETS $8,500 A MONTH,” By Charles Babington, Washington Post, May 4, 1992 ; Page B01
“MD. CANDIDATE TO KEEP TAKING SALARY: CAMPAIGN FUNDS NEEDED TO CHALLENGE INCUMBENT, KEYES SAYS”, By Richard Tapscott, Washington Post, May 16, 1992 Page A12
Overby, Peter. “Charge it to my campaign.” Common Cause Magazine v18, n3 (Fall, 1992):23
Do I need more sources?
In the lead up to Kansas City, my few conversations with you amounted to advice you had for me about what kind of juvenile political games we could play to fool people and capture the CP nomination. We had no interest in such games. We went there to honestly and fully present our views, so CP folks could make an honest choice, which is exactly what we did.
Your demeanor and actions there were beneath contempt. Your treated Dr. Keyes with utter contempt and arrogance. I did have to ask you to leave the room, no matter what you say. I did give you a bit of a tongue lashing in the hallway and in the elevator, which you richly deserved. Although, I didn’t use the words you claim I did. More fiction on your part.
The Cp should form their own party in California. Why continue to hijack AIP. Will the in fighting stop after this?
Physically removed or ask him to leave? Tom you can’t even keep your story straight.
I asked Tom on one of the conference calls for a list of CT supporters of Keyes so that we could work with them and possibly put them on as delegates (we had 7 empty slots). He said email me and I will get you that list. I email him and got nothing. Two more state told me they emailed the same request and got nothing.
Keyes spent the entire time trying to tell us why we were wrong instead of focusing on our areas of agreement. What is more effective I’m right you’re wrong or this is the 80 to 90% that we agree on.
I do believe now that Keyes was sent to the CP and Barr was sent to the LP to destroy them. I could be wrong, but Keyes after praying for unity tried to hi-jack the party. I was there. We stood in a circle and held hands as we prayed twenty or so people with Keyes. I was right nest to Keyes. I had just finished defending him. I held his hand as we prayed. Keyes lost all respect I had for him because he invoked the name of God for unity then sought to separate.
Trent said:
” Even those who were sympathetic to Keyes, like Stufflebeam, Sean McKay, Gary Odom, and others were all very pissed off with both Keyes and (especially) Tom Hoefling by the end of the weekend for their arrogant, aloof, ridiculous treatment of the CP that weekend. I maintain to this day that had Keyes come in and acted politely, instead of with hostility, and followed the advice given to him by CP-insiders, he could’ve won.”
I say:
I admit, to my shame that I went into the convention favorable toward Keyes. I had supported him in 2000, and was hoping for more out of him. From a strategic point of view, there were a number of areas where he could have united (with leadership) rather than divided — without requiring a sacrifice on principles that he claims to stand on (like saying he won’t get out of the UN — if would have said: we can’t get out of the UN immediately, we need to follow the process stipulated in the treaty, but we’ll do it — he would have gone a long way to being less offensive.). My mother had a conversation with him for over an hour, and was impressed and not impressed at the same time. In her conversation with Keyes, he mentioned stupid stuff like the Bricker amendment needed to close loopholes of treaties being on equal ground as the Constitution. If Keyes had been well versed in what he was talking about, he would have known about the Supreme Court decision in 1957 (Reid v Covert) which said there was no such loophole — the Constitution really trumped treaties. Duh. Disappointing really, for a “Constitutional scholar” to miss that one.
In any case, Tom H. was very rude at the convention, and I am sad to have been from the same state as he was. Actually, a large number of Keyes people were rude at the convention (most of the rude and belligerent ones I didn’t realize were Keyes people until they disappeared after Keyes lost). However, I did have the pleasure of meeting a few wonderful Keyes supporters (Howard from PA, Steve from MD, a gentleman whose name escapes me from FL, and Greg from MI come to mind).
“And you have no clue what’s going on in California. Your words make that quite clear.
If you knew even a tiny fraction as much as you think you do, you’d be dangerous.”
I know what’s going on in CA for the Baldwin group. They’re quite likely to lose the lawsuits that are being brought because of Seidenberg’s GOP connections.
“In the lead up to Kansas City, my few conversations with you amounted to advice you had for me about what kind of juvenile political games we could play to fool people and capture the CP nomination. We had no interest in such games. We went there to honestly and fully present our views, so CP folks could make an honest choice, which is exactly what we did.”
Its games to send out an email to your Louisiana email list looking for delegates to support your candidate, which our party was going to allow without so much as a vote because we wanted to bring you guys in? Is it a game to think that Keyes should have at least compared his “modest” interventionism to someone else who would be respect by the CP? (Like Goldwater,for example). Was it a game to think Keyes shouldnt have come in and hostilely accused CP delegates of being uneducated or unrealistic on the subject of foreign policy? No–all of these things could’ve at least made Keyes a competitor, instead he was ripped apart by a two-to-one margin.
“Your demeanor and actions there were beneath contempt. Your treated Dr. Keyes with utter contempt and arrogance. I did have to ask you to leave the room, no matter what you say. I did give you a bit of a tongue lashing in the hallway and in the elevator, which you richly deserved. Although, I didn’t use the words you claim I did. More fiction on your part.”
I wouldn’t say beneath contempt. Contempt sums it up nicely, I think. I actually pitied the man for the way he was throwing away his career, which was once pretty prominent and was now simply swirling down the toilet bowl. Red Phillips repeatedly gave warnings about how the foriegn policy debate was settled on the far-right, and he was correct, MORE advice you could’ve listened to. And since you seem to have a hangup on accepting advice from a 19 year old (whether he’s a party insider or not)–take the advice from Red, he’s 40-ish and an MD.
And no, you didnt remove me from the room, though clearly your memory is failing you. Part of being so “young” and “childish” is that I remember everything quite clearly Tom–maybe your memory is failing you as badly as your so-called political skills?
As for the “tongue lashing”–if that’s what you call a childish tantrum, sure. You aren’t my father, mother, uncle, friend, brother, sister, grandma, or church leader—you are some guy I had never met before. For you to “discipline” me would be irrational. Rather, you probably thought you could step all over me because you had “experience” and I was “just a brat”. Instead, I surprised you by snapping back–and you later apologized.
“However, I did have the pleasure of meeting a few wonderful Keyes supporters (Howard from PA, Steve from MD, a gentleman whose name escapes me from FL, and Greg from MI come to mind).”
I should mention this too. I met men from FL, Missouri, and Idaho who were Keyes supporters–all were wonderful men. The man from Idaho and I even sat down and discussed foreign policy for over 2 hours, quite politely, and agreed to disagree at the end, though he said he understood our position much better then.
“If Keyes had been well versed in what he was talking about, he would have known about the Supreme Court decision in 1957 (Reid v Covert) which said there was no such loophole — the Constitution really trumped treaties. Duh. Disappointing really, for a “Constitutional scholar†to miss that one.”
Oh I wasn’t the only skeptic person in the room then? Yea, it was this question (about foriegn policy, a softball question from one of his pals about “islamic fascism”) that led me to leave the room—which Tom H. says was him “physically removing” me or “asking” me to leave, depending on what story Tom H. is telling.
Given the name, “Independent” in the American/a Independent Party it possible that many Independent voters are mistakenly enrolling in a third party when they do not wish to enroll in any party.
The GOP really did not seem to like Alan at all, at least that was the buzz I got from several of GOP friends and associates. Ron Paul was basically seem as some what entertaining, but Alan just filled many GOPers with fear and loathing.
Tom,
I ask again was it physically removed or asked to leave?
He was instructed to leave, by me, in no uncertain terms. In other words, his physical presence was no longer wanted, because he was a disruptive, disrespectful guest. As I said earlier, I’ve never seen anything quite like it.
ETJB,
It’s a pretty well established fact that a large percentage of AIP voters have historically been there for the exact reason you state. Markham Robinson, the AIP’s chairman, has done survey work since he took office that confirms this.
Perhaps it is counter-intuitive to some, but we don’t really like that situation. We’d rather that folks registered with AIP because they believe what we believe. And so, we’ve taken steps to educate folks along those lines.
It may surprise some, but much of the growth…growth in excess of 11% in September and October…has come during the very time period that the party has been taking steps to make sure AIP registrants are filled in on exactly what it is they’re party to.
“He was instructed to leave, by me, in no uncertain terms. In other words, his physical presence was no longer wanted, because he was a disruptive, disrespectful guest. As I said earlier, I’ve never seen anything quite like it.”
Complete and utter baloney. I left and Tom came out chasing me, and asked me to stop. I did, where he preceded to yell at me in the hallway. I got in the elevator, which he stepped into also, and we argued outside the elevator downstairs in the lobby. Until finally he suggested we step outside. We did, and he apologized for his behavior making excuses like he had “slept very little” and that “Alan has been making a great effort”. If I had been instructed to leave,would it have been alright for me to come back 2 more times?
Sean, I was never rude to you or anyone else at the convention. You’re making that up. Anyone who actually knows me would laugh at the idea that I would conduct myself that way.
Tom, you’ve lost it. Don’t you have some innocent social conservative grandmas to swindle for their “donations” to pay Alan’s constant-candidate salary?
“Sean, I was never rude to you or anyone else at the convention. You’re making that up. Anyone who actually knows me would laugh at the idea that I would conduct myself that way.”
Tom–two people on here have said you were rude. Anyone who is interested can contact Red Phillips, Paul Venable, Rocky Reidel, Bryan Malatesta, Randy Stufflebeam, or practically anyone else on the Baldwin side for a confirmation of this. I’m most outspoken about Mr. Hoefling because although he was rude to everyone, I believe I was the only person whom he cussed out. And I’ll tell you, I swung an entire state’s votes simply by conveying the story of how Hoefling treated me. The delegate was shocked that, regardless of whether I was being arrogant or not, an older man like him would cuss at a teenager.
Trent, your posts on this very thread make it very clear what your attitude is. You’re barely in your twenties and you think you’re smarter than everyone else, including Alan Keyes, a man who has served this country and capably defended Constitutional governance for decades…since well before you were even born.
In Kansas City, your youthful arrogance, which exceeds that of any young person I’ve ever seen, got the best of you.
Trent, your slanderous comments reflect on you, not on me.
Im barely in my twenties and will admit MANY people are smarter than me. Ron Paul, Walter Block, Lew Rockwell, Anthony Gregory, Richard Winger, Red Phillips, My uncle, my friend Dylan–hell, you might even be smarter than me and im QUITE sure Dr. Keyes is.
And so is Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, William Jefferson, and Ted Stevens–but, like these men, you and Dr. Keyes are crooks. You pilfer money from conservative activists in order to pay for Dr. Keyes’ massive mansion in Maryland. He took $8,500 a month during his 1992 Senate Campaign in Maryland–which is over $100,000 a year.
I would never be so arrogant as to claim I’m smarter than “anyone”. I wouldnt even say I’m as smart as the owner of this blog, or many of its commenters–but I know what integrity is. And it isnt yelling curse words at teenagers, or stealing money to line your pockets, or claiming someone is “the pre-eminent constitutional scholar” when they’ve never been elected to ANY office.
“Trent, your posts on this very thread make it very clear what your attitude is. You’re barely in your twenties and you think you’re smarter than everyone else, including Alan Keyes, a man who has served this country and capably defended Constitutional governance for decades…since well before you were even born.”
Age hasnt much to do with intellect. Murray Rothbard was smarter at 19 then Alan Keyes will ever be. Albert Einstein was smarter at 16 then probably ANYONE will ever be. On the flipside, your 50-something.
Of course, a Congressperson and a Senator will not challenge the validity of the election because some valid and non-defective ballots were deliberately not counted. The Congress is far too corrupt to demand a legitimate election. When the only votes counted are the ones that the election officials count at their discretion, then the election is a sham! A damn sham! So Congress is a sham too.
Now you’re comparing yourself to Rothbard and Einstein? Wow…
“Now you’re comparing yourself to Rothbard and Einstein? Wow…”
Strawman arguement. I was in no way comparing myself to the genius of Rothbard or Einstein. In the paragraph above I said Lew Rockwell was FAR smarter than me, and Rothbard was FAR smarter than him,even at 19.
This is a common theme for Alan Keyes and now im seeing its a common theme with Tom Hoefling too–pick out one phrase and try to shift the goalposts. My point was simply that age does not correspond to intelligence, nor does “experience”. Tom couldn’t refute any of that so he tried to reflect it so that I had to take a defensive posture. Honestly though, I haven’t got time to waste on Tom Hoefling, I don’t get paid by swindling conservative activists out of their money, I work for mine–and I’ve got work to do now. The sad thing is, Hoefling, nor Keyes, were ever a threat–and they won’t be ever again. There prestige since 2000 has been diminished to a shadow of what it once was. Losing the CP nomination and then getting on only 3 state ballots sealed their fate.
Tom,
Do you even know who Rothbard is? I’d be quite surprised if you did. Theo-neocons don’t often read the works of anarcho-capitalist libertarian economists.
Like I said. You always think you’re smarter than everybody else. Everything you write confirms it.
And your presumption is staggering in its scope.
Alan Keyes is a user of the Minutemen.
At the center of a Minuteman controversy is an organization called the Declaration Foundation, a 501(c)(3) that shares office space with the Declaration Alliance, a 501(c)(4), located in Reston, Virginia. Alan Keyes founded both of these organizations. Apparently, the Declaration Alliance has been a funnel for resources going to MCDC. A form 990 of the Alliance, for example, reports $739,353 in “program services expenditures†in support of MCDC, plus a direct contribution to MCDC of another $112,500. The Web site of MCDC claims that it is a project of the Declaration Alliance, and the first and last MCDC 990 reports $418,493 in revenue (almost $1.2 million less than Simcox’s public estimate of the public support his organization had received),[9] including the Declaration Alliance’s $112,500, but the 990 made no reference to the Declaration Alliance’s other programmatic involvement or its expenditures on behalf of the Minuteman project.
One of the questions asked by those fired from MCDC was what exactly the relationship between the two organizations really is. Besides earning Simcox’s dismissal, they also got an earful from Keyes, who characterized critics of the Declaration-MCDC financial relationship as “racists†and “other unsavory fringe elements.â€[10] A clue to the critics’ concerns might be indications of self-dealing, cited by Pennsylvania’s Bureau of Charitable Organizations when it fined the Declaration Foundation $6,500 in 2006 because it “gave false information when it said it did not share revenue with other nonprofit or tax-exempt groups, and misstates the truth when it said none of its officers or employees was tied to any vendor providing goods or services.†As the bureau noticed, the web of interrelationships between MCDC, Keyes’s organizations, and various vendors and Keyes aides get murkier the more you dig.
MCDC, for example, lists one Maureen Otis as its board secretary. Otis is president of a firm called American Caging, sharing MCDC’s address (from its 990), and MCDC paid American Caging $15,202 for “caging fees.†(Caging fees are a political term of art that the Bush administration has added to the American English lexicon, along with “hanging chads.†Our introduction to the former came from the somewhat confusing testimony of Monica Goodling (an aide to the now former attorney general Alberto Gonzalez), which a Slate columnist then clarified: “Vote caging is an illegal trick to suppress minority voters (who tend to vote Democrat) by getting them knocked off the voter rolls if they fail to answer registered mail sent to homes they aren’t living at (because they are, say, at college or at war).â€[11]
MCDC paid for caging fees? MCDC’s PAC has paid Otis’s firm $70,000 in caging fees since 2006, although neither Minuteman organization discloses the connection between Otis and American Caging.[12] Otis’s American Caging lists the Declaration Alliance, along with MCDC, the Salvation Army, and the Traditional Values Coalition,[13] as one of its clients.[14]
During that time, MCDC’s PAC also paid $37,500 to Constantine Financial Services, an accounting firm run out of the same address as the Declaration Alliance and Declaration Foundation by William Constantine, who serves as treasurer of the two Declaration organizations. His firm also received $15,500 from the Declaration Alliance PAC (“the campaign and ballot initiatives ‘arm’ of DA activismâ€) and the Declaration Alliance—MCDC PAC—and $5,500 while he was their treasurer. The Declaration Alliance PAC also paid $5,000 to the company of its own president, Mary Lewis, who is Keyes’s longtime chief of staff. Lewis’s company, Politechs Inc, also received $10,000 from MCDC’s PAC in the first half of this year. Lewis is also the board secretary of the Declaration Foundation and treasurer of two of the Declaration-associated PACs.
While the Declaration Alliance is a “civic public policy and issues advocacy organization that aggressively defends the Founding principles of the American Republic,†its Web site[15] appears to be more like an Alan Keyes presidential campaign arm. The heading at the top of the page is a link to “Alan Keyes on the 2008 Election,†which redirects to the site of a group called Renew America, another tax-exempt entity founded by Keyes[16]. The Renew America Web site leads with a link to a group called “We Need Alan Keyes for President,†which calls itself a PAC. The Declaration Alliance Web site also devotes a page to Keyes’s share of the vote in the 2000 Republican primaries.
Like the Russian matryoshka nesting dolls, these nonprofits all pop up inside one another’s programs and operations. Take Otis’s caging client, the Traditional Values Coalition, a rabidly antigay advocacy organization run by conservative preacher Louis Sheldon and his daughter Andrea Lafferty. Connected to Keyes? Apparently Sheldon and Keyes were the two sponsors of a petition drive to protest Janet Jackson’s infamous Super Bowl halftime performance with some sort of class-action suit against CBS and its parent, Viacom.[17] The entity used by Sheldon and Keyes for the petitions, ConservativePetitions.com, usually lists all open and closed petitions and the number of signers, though the CBS/Viacom petition is not immediately identifiable, but among the two currently open petitions on the sites, the most popular is an anti-immigrant petition (concerning tuition rates for “illegal immigrantsâ€) launched by current Republican presidential candidate Tom Tancredo.[18]
One would think that the internecine warfare within MCDC’s movement, combined with messy finances, would have put the organization in a nonprofit undertaker’s home. But in fact, MDCD is still functioning, sniping, and whining. In Cochise County, Arizona, Simcox’s longtime plan for a 14-foot border fence (because the federal government couldn’t or wouldn’t build one of its own) has ended up a barbed-wire “cow fence,†condemned by ex-MCDC volunteers as no more than another desperate Simcox fundraising “ployâ€.[19] As one former volunteer summarized it, however, MCDC’s ethical problems are as murky as ever: “To this day, we still don’t have an idea of how much Minuteman Civil Defense Corps has raised.â€[20] Like Keystone Cops, MCDC and its rival Patriots’ Border Alliance are implementing competing border patrols in Arizona.[21]
The Alan Keyes presidential campaign Web site gives no indication of concern about MCDC’s travesties and no retreat from the organization’s hostile stance toward immigrants. In fact, the campaign uses language that even the Minuteman guys don’t. According to the AlanKeyes.com Web site, the candidate advocates “discouraging any [immigrants] who think they have the right to establish foreign enclaves in our midst, so to speak, in order to gain economic advantages for themselves without fully committing to help us build this free society†and calling on “responsible and moral Americans [to] oppose any measures that would signal our acceptance of the de facto colonization of our country â€.[22] A presidential candidate frequently enmeshed with xenophobic nonprofits, Alan Keyes appears not to reflect the best of the nonprofit sector’s values and standards.
“Like I said. You always think you’re smarter than everybody else. Everything you write confirms it.
And your presumption is staggering in its scope.”
How so? I’m friends with a host of neoconservative thinkers and activists who aren’t familiar with Rothbard.
Hell, im friends with libertarians and paleoconservatives who don’t know who Rothbard is–people who are well educated and much smarter than I.
Keyes and Hoefling acted like arrogant jerks in Kansas City.
Once they realized that the CP “hicks” werent going to go starried eyed when (in their own view) the “major leaguer Messiah Alan Keyes” was going to grace them all with his presence, they got real uppity fast.
Then cultivating those kooks (who even they dont even respect or like) out in California to swindle away the AIP ballot, just so old Alan could try to continue to raise money to support his pathetic little lifestyle.
Time for Tommy and Alan to get a real job instead of being professional BSers!
Minuteman Justice does a pretty good job of covering Keyes’ problems with MCDC.
The 100,000 Keyes paid himself is pretty outrageous,as is the several hundred thousand dollars owed by his presidential campaigns for YEARS after they’d ended.
“they got real uppity fast.”
They knew they were in trouble the very first night. It was clear to us by the end of the first day that we had complete control of the convention, by at least a 2-1 majority. Howard Phillips’ speech against Alan Keyes actually convinced some delegates from IL and MO to vote FOR Keyes.
Staggering ignorance.
A caging company is an accounting firm which processes donations. It’s not some deeply mysterious entity.
And you’re cribbing notes from open-borders liberals. The tip-off:
“…no retreat from the organization’s hostile stance toward immigrants.”
Re: I wont, because I’m not that vindictive
What then a broken record?
If it walks like a duck…
And digging back to 1992?
Get a life.
“Staggering ignorance.
A caging company is an accounting firm which processes donations. It’s not some deeply mysterious entity.”
We all know what it is. The problem isnt that Keyes USED a caging firm, but that Keyes is cycling money through various organizations to himself.
“And you’re cribbing notes from open-borders liberals. The tip-off:”
Does that make the information incorrect? No.
So, basically–everyone on this thread who is criticizing your actions at the convention (of which there are three,so far) are lying just to castigate you? As well as the entire media establishment, the Constitution Party, the Illinois Republican Party, the Maryland Republican Party, etc?
Click on my name (link)to find out the hidden secrets of Alan Keyes…
Highlights–
– Paid himself $100,000 per year out of campaign funds
– Those who know him best like him least (former campaign workers)
– All talk, no action
– Still owes money for his senate campaign, denies responsibility
and more!
Interesting stuff Trent.
I’m glad the Nevada IAP is not on the same boat as our turbulent California sister.
“including Alan Keyes, a man who has served this country and capably defended Constitutional governance for decades…since well before you were even born.”
BAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
Wow. This feels like old times. I was steadfastly opposed to Keyes as the nominee from the very first time I heard he might be interested. I was critical of the CP and CP leadership for even courting him. I can attest that Trent was much more open to the idea than I was. And I have said that I think the CP has some explaining to do for the way the situation was handled prior to the Convention.
I had no problem with Tom in KC although I think he knew I wasn’t a candidate for conversion. I never had the small group sit down that Trent did.
I was on the periphery at various times of Keyes’ day long holding of court. And I did witness the prayer someone referred to.
Toward the end, I actually began to feel sorry for Keyes. He strikes me as a tragic figure of almost Shakespearean proportions. He is a man of tremendous gifts but also crippling flaws. He seems utterly incapable of understanding that other people may not agree with him and not be idiots. He doesn’t answer questions he launches into lectures and pontifications. He seems oblivious to the effect he has on people. People are just supposed to agree with him because of the superiority of his intellect and rhetoric. (Before you get upset Tom, this is my impression and it is one shared by many I have talked to or read.)
I was really holding out hopes until the very end that he would not submit his name for nomination and thus avoid the humiliation of defeat that was obvious from day one. He could have simply said that after careful consideration he had decided that he and the CP were a bad fit and moved on. I still do not understand why he submitted his name when the outcome was a foregone conclusion.
His behavior and the behavior of some of his surrogates after his defeat for the nomination was serious sour grapes, esp. the CA theft. Running as an independent that late was delusional and bound to humiliate him further.
The likable gentleman from FL was Greg Polous, and I rather liked the fellow from Idaho also, Tom I think.
The only one actually caught in a lie on this thread so far is Tom H.
Let it be known that I am cocky and arogant. I tell the people that I work with that I am probably the smartest person they will ever meet.
That said I have never been offended by Trent. He has always used logic and facts even when pointing out the one time I was wrong.
When were you wrong? I cant remember ever disagreeing with you at all, actually.
I cannot remember the issue but I did have my facts or probably a fact and you pointed it out. I was right on the issue though.
I think that Tom H.’s problem with you is that you are more influiential at 20 than he is now or possibly ever was.
James 3-4 (New King James Version)
James 3
The Untamable Tongue
1 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.
2 For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body.
3 Indeed, we put bits in horses’ mouths that they may obey us, and we turn their whole body.
4 Look also at ships: although they are so large and are driven by fierce winds, they are turned by a very small rudder wherever the pilot desires.
5 Even so the tongue is a little member and boasts great things.
See how great a forest a little fire kindles!
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell.
7 For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and creature of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by mankind.
8 But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so.
11 Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening?
12 Can a fig tree, my brethren, bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Thus no spring yields both salt water and fresh.
Heavenly Versus Demonic Wisdom
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom.
14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth.
15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic.
16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.
18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.
I Googled for “American Caging”. The poster above who discusses one definition of caging as if it is relevant here seems to be jumping to conclusions. See
http://www.humanevents.com/downloads-pdfs/SAS70Report.pdf for the description of “caging activities” performed by American Caging — opening mail, processing donations, depositing the proceeds, tallying results.
Alan Keyes has long been the presidential candidate who has represented my views on a wide range of important subjects better — by far — than anyone else in the public square. The new and old insults here don’t change that.
“I think that Tom H.’s problem with you is that you are more influiential at 20 than he is now or possibly ever was.”
Oh I doubt that. Tom H. commands well a small army of activists (I’d say several hundred, and several thousand voters) as well as a fundraising list that can still raise a couple hundred thousand dollars. My opinion is respected within the CP, LP, over at IPR, and with most of the Ron Paul crowd–but I command no army, and I can raise no cash. Tom Hoefling is likely mad at me because I ddin’t treat Alan Keyes like a messiah—I treated him as I would treat any neocon who tried to convince me that intervention is alright–I rolled my eyes.
And it probably frustrated him that our little rabblerousing coalition at the CP convention was able to do alot of damage. Myself, Schuyler Reidel, Paul Venable, Daniel Kocher–we did the legwork on the floor of the convention. In hindsight, im not sure it was neccesary, I think Baldwin would’ve won anyway.
Now I know for certain that Tom H is not only rude but a liar.
Tom Hoefling Says:
December 15th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Sean, I was never rude to you or anyone else at the convention. You’re making that up. Anyone who actually knows me would laugh at the idea that I would conduct myself that way.
tit for tat
has everyone forgotten that the republic is dying before our eyes? it is not about what people say about us now but what will they say about what we did to save it
The vote total for Baldwin has risen to 311 in CT. Although still no votes recorded for Baldwin in Meriden or Norwich were people are saying that they voted for him.
Perhaps more voters should just write-in themselves (self-nominate) and then invoke their right to observe the vote counting as a candidate. Oh, I’ll bet it would require a lawsuit to exercise that right.
Tom Hoefling: “You ever hear of Cody Quirk?”
———- Straight Male WASP from KCMO
Donald Raymond Lake