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	<title>Comments on: California Fight on Whether Prop. 14 Ballot Title Should Include &#8220;Greater Participation in Elections&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2010/03/08/california-fight-on-whether-prop-14-ballot-title-should-include-greater-participation-in-elections/</link>
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		<title>By: Steve Rankin</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2010/03/08/california-fight-on-whether-prop-14-ballot-title-should-include-greater-participation-in-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-786784</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Rankin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 01:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=11066#comment-786784</guid>
		<description>Under the &quot;top two open primary,&quot; Woody Jenkins lost three times for US senator and once for state registrar of voters (he ran his first two races for the Senate as a Democrat).

If Mississippi had had the &quot;top two open primary&quot; in 1978, Thad Cochran would not have been elected US senator.  A black independent drained votes from the Democratic nominee, and Cochran won with 45.0%.

For that matter, if we had had a &quot;top two&quot; in 1972, Cochran would not have been elected to the US House.  He benefited from the presence of another black independent and won with 47.9%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Under the &#8220;top two open primary,&#8221; Woody Jenkins lost three times for US senator and once for state registrar of voters (he ran his first two races for the Senate as a Democrat).</p>
<p>If Mississippi had had the &#8220;top two open primary&#8221; in 1978, Thad Cochran would not have been elected US senator.  A black independent drained votes from the Democratic nominee, and Cochran won with 45.0%.</p>
<p>For that matter, if we had had a &#8220;top two&#8221; in 1972, Cochran would not have been elected to the US House.  He benefited from the presence of another black independent and won with 47.9%.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Riley</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2010/03/08/california-fight-on-whether-prop-14-ballot-title-should-include-greater-participation-in-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-786754</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=11066#comment-786754</guid>
		<description>#27

Neither Cazayoux or Cassidy received a majority.  Had the special election been run as a conventional Louisiana election, Jenkins might have been elected.  

Had the general election been run as a conventional Louisiana election, Cazayoux might have won.  Jackson avoided the Democratic primary by running as an &quot;independent&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#27</p>
<p>Neither Cazayoux or Cassidy received a majority.  Had the special election been run as a conventional Louisiana election, Jenkins might have been elected.  </p>
<p>Had the general election been run as a conventional Louisiana election, Cazayoux might have won.  Jackson avoided the Democratic primary by running as an &#8220;independent&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Rankin</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2010/03/08/california-fight-on-whether-prop-14-ballot-title-should-include-greater-participation-in-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-786677</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Rankin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 01:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=11066#comment-786677</guid>
		<description>Louisiana restored party primaries for the US House and Senate in 2008.

The current congressman from Baton Rouge was first elected in 2008, for example.  He&#039;s a Republican who defeated a Democratic incumbent.

The Republican Party was a small party when Louisiana began using its &quot;open primary&quot; in the 1970s.  The &quot;open primary&quot; &lt;i&gt;retarded&lt;/i&gt; the GOP&#039;s growth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Louisiana restored party primaries for the US House and Senate in 2008.</p>
<p>The current congressman from Baton Rouge was first elected in 2008, for example.  He&#8217;s a Republican who defeated a Democratic incumbent.</p>
<p>The Republican Party was a small party when Louisiana began using its &#8220;open primary&#8221; in the 1970s.  The &#8220;open primary&#8221; <i>retarded</i> the GOP&#8217;s growth.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Riley</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2010/03/08/california-fight-on-whether-prop-14-ballot-title-should-include-greater-participation-in-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-786616</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 06:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=11066#comment-786616</guid>
		<description>#25 You assume that the political parties are acting with intelligence.

Louisiana is most similar to Mississippi, Arkansas, and Alabama.  Agreed?

A larger share of the US representatives from Louisiana are Republicans than the other 3, and they are much closer to taking control of the House of Representatives, and there is effectively bipartisan control now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#25 You assume that the political parties are acting with intelligence.</p>
<p>Louisiana is most similar to Mississippi, Arkansas, and Alabama.  Agreed?</p>
<p>A larger share of the US representatives from Louisiana are Republicans than the other 3, and they are much closer to taking control of the House of Representatives, and there is effectively bipartisan control now.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Rankin</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2010/03/08/california-fight-on-whether-prop-14-ballot-title-should-include-greater-participation-in-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-786585</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Rankin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 00:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=11066#comment-786585</guid>
		<description>#24:  It will likely be several more years before the Washington state &quot;top two&quot; litigation is settled.  Many voters are already mad at the political parties, and if the parties win the &quot;top two&quot; case, they aren&#039;t going to plunge into yet more litigation.  The voters would really get angry if the parties tried to have closed primaries.

As I&#039;ve said elsewhere on this site, party primaries have been a major factor in the growth of the Republican Party in the South.  Louisiana&#039;s lack of party primaries, starting in the 1970s, retarded the GOP&#039;s growth in the Bayou State.

Senator Johnston won his second term in &#039;78, the first year the &quot;open primary&quot; was used for congressional elections.  The second-place finisher was a Democrat, and there was no runoff.  I don&#039;t think the Republicans even ran a candidate.

The &#039;96 presidential election was between Bill Clinton and Bob Dole (plus the small party nominees).

In the &#039;96 US Senate race, there were five or six serious Republican candidates, and it appeared that they would split the vote and enable two Democrats to make the runoff.  At the last minute, the GOP leaders endorsed Woody Jenkins, who made the runoff against the Democrat Mary Landrieu (I would much prefer to have such a decision made by Republican voters in a party primary).

A gambling referendum in Landrieu&#039;s home parish of Orleans increased the turnout there and was largely responsible for her win.  She carried Orleans Parish by 100,000-plus votes but won statewide by only about 7,000 votes (Jenkins carried 37 of the state&#039;s 64 parishes).

There was evidence of vote fraud in Orleans Parish, and Jenkins contested the election.  But he was wasting his time, since the Democrats in the Senate made sure that Landrieu was seated.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Under an open primary, a candidate would have to appeal to the entire electorate.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Yes, unless one candidate gets 50%-plus in the first round of Louisiana&#039;s &quot;open primary,&quot; the top two vote-getters have to finance and conduct TWO general election campaigns.  This makes campaigns more expensive and discourages candidates from running-- especially candidates without a great deal of money.

Under Prop. 14, the top two vote-getters in California would ALWAYS have to finance and conduct TWO general election campaigns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#24:  It will likely be several more years before the Washington state &#8220;top two&#8221; litigation is settled.  Many voters are already mad at the political parties, and if the parties win the &#8220;top two&#8221; case, they aren&#8217;t going to plunge into yet more litigation.  The voters would really get angry if the parties tried to have closed primaries.</p>
<p>As I&#8217;ve said elsewhere on this site, party primaries have been a major factor in the growth of the Republican Party in the South.  Louisiana&#8217;s lack of party primaries, starting in the 1970s, retarded the GOP&#8217;s growth in the Bayou State.</p>
<p>Senator Johnston won his second term in &#8217;78, the first year the &#8220;open primary&#8221; was used for congressional elections.  The second-place finisher was a Democrat, and there was no runoff.  I don&#8217;t think the Republicans even ran a candidate.</p>
<p>The &#8217;96 presidential election was between Bill Clinton and Bob Dole (plus the small party nominees).</p>
<p>In the &#8217;96 US Senate race, there were five or six serious Republican candidates, and it appeared that they would split the vote and enable two Democrats to make the runoff.  At the last minute, the GOP leaders endorsed Woody Jenkins, who made the runoff against the Democrat Mary Landrieu (I would much prefer to have such a decision made by Republican voters in a party primary).</p>
<p>A gambling referendum in Landrieu&#8217;s home parish of Orleans increased the turnout there and was largely responsible for her win.  She carried Orleans Parish by 100,000-plus votes but won statewide by only about 7,000 votes (Jenkins carried 37 of the state&#8217;s 64 parishes).</p>
<p>There was evidence of vote fraud in Orleans Parish, and Jenkins contested the election.  But he was wasting his time, since the Democrats in the Senate made sure that Landrieu was seated.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Under an open primary, a candidate would have to appeal to the entire electorate.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Yes, unless one candidate gets 50%-plus in the first round of Louisiana&#8217;s &#8220;open primary,&#8221; the top two vote-getters have to finance and conduct TWO general election campaigns.  This makes campaigns more expensive and discourages candidates from running&#8211; especially candidates without a great deal of money.</p>
<p>Under Prop. 14, the top two vote-getters in California would ALWAYS have to finance and conduct TWO general election campaigns.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Riley</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2010/03/08/california-fight-on-whether-prop-14-ballot-title-should-include-greater-participation-in-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-786543</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=11066#comment-786543</guid>
		<description>#23/19 That is conjecture.  The Washington Democrats refuse to use the presidential primary, even though the State requires voters to sign their affiliation when they vote.

#23/20 If you read the Publius article, it talked about the effect of the open primary on legislative races.  It compared the number of races where there was a Republican candidate on the general election ballot under the primary system vs. how many made the runoff under the open primary.

Before the open primary, a Republican simply had to file in order to get on the general election ballot - it would be rare for the GOP primary to be contested.  They would then watch a couple of rounds of party primaries.  And it would count to be on the general election ballot, even if you lost 90-10.

After the open primary was instituted, Republicans would be on the primary ballot with a few Democrats.  They would have to get people to vote for them, or they wouldn&#039;t be on the general election ballot.  Initially this meant fewer Republicans were on the general election ballot.  But ultimately made them stronger.

Johnston and Russell Long were entrenched before the Open Primary was instituted.  So you have to show that Moore would have been elected in 1986 had there been a partisan primary.  Breaux was pretty unbeatable, in part because he would get the votes of some Republican voters.

Landrieu won the 1996 runoff because it was coincident with the presidential election, which Gore won fairly handily in Louisiana.  Had it been after &lt;i&gt;Foster v. Love&lt;/i&gt; then it would probably have been Jenkins winning the runoff.

I don&#039;t think you can really say that had there been primaries, that Moore or Jenkins would have been elected.  And had there still been the open primary, maybe Landrieu would have been forced to a runoff in 2008.

Under an open primary, a candidate would have to appeal to the entire electorate.  They couldn&#039;t simply appeal to a party electorate in the primary, and then expect automatic election in the general election.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#23/19 That is conjecture.  The Washington Democrats refuse to use the presidential primary, even though the State requires voters to sign their affiliation when they vote.</p>
<p>#23/20 If you read the Publius article, it talked about the effect of the open primary on legislative races.  It compared the number of races where there was a Republican candidate on the general election ballot under the primary system vs. how many made the runoff under the open primary.</p>
<p>Before the open primary, a Republican simply had to file in order to get on the general election ballot &#8211; it would be rare for the GOP primary to be contested.  They would then watch a couple of rounds of party primaries.  And it would count to be on the general election ballot, even if you lost 90-10.</p>
<p>After the open primary was instituted, Republicans would be on the primary ballot with a few Democrats.  They would have to get people to vote for them, or they wouldn&#8217;t be on the general election ballot.  Initially this meant fewer Republicans were on the general election ballot.  But ultimately made them stronger.</p>
<p>Johnston and Russell Long were entrenched before the Open Primary was instituted.  So you have to show that Moore would have been elected in 1986 had there been a partisan primary.  Breaux was pretty unbeatable, in part because he would get the votes of some Republican voters.</p>
<p>Landrieu won the 1996 runoff because it was coincident with the presidential election, which Gore won fairly handily in Louisiana.  Had it been after <i>Foster v. Love</i> then it would probably have been Jenkins winning the runoff.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think you can really say that had there been primaries, that Moore or Jenkins would have been elected.  And had there still been the open primary, maybe Landrieu would have been forced to a runoff in 2008.</p>
<p>Under an open primary, a candidate would have to appeal to the entire electorate.  They couldn&#8217;t simply appeal to a party electorate in the primary, and then expect automatic election in the general election.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Rankin</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2010/03/08/california-fight-on-whether-prop-14-ballot-title-should-include-greater-participation-in-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-786532</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Rankin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 02:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=11066#comment-786532</guid>
		<description>#19:  The major parties in Washington state would be very satisfied if they could get rid of the &quot;top two&quot; and restore the classic open (or pick-a-party) primary-- regardless of what happens in any other state.

#20:  I&#039;m afraid I don&#039;t follow your logic here.  Most of my relatives live in Louisiana, and I&#039;ve been observing their &quot;open primary&quot; since its inception in the 1970s, and I wouldn&#039;t wish that election system on my worst enemy.

It&#039;s certainly no conincidence that Louisiana did not have its first popularly-elected Republican US senator-- David Vitter-- until 2004.

Unless one candidate gets 50%-plus in the first round, the top two candidates in Louisiana are required to conduct TWO general election campaigns; this discourages candidates from running.  In recent years, two former governors &quot;tested the waters&quot; but decided not to run.  If Louisiana had had party primaries, they likely WOULD have run.

For a member of a small party to favor the &quot;top two open primary&quot; would be like a chicken handing Colonel Sanders a hatchet and inviting him into the henhouse.

Under California&#039;s Prop. 14, of course, the top two vote-getters would ALWAYS have to conduct TWO general election campaigns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#19:  The major parties in Washington state would be very satisfied if they could get rid of the &#8220;top two&#8221; and restore the classic open (or pick-a-party) primary&#8211; regardless of what happens in any other state.</p>
<p>#20:  I&#8217;m afraid I don&#8217;t follow your logic here.  Most of my relatives live in Louisiana, and I&#8217;ve been observing their &#8220;open primary&#8221; since its inception in the 1970s, and I wouldn&#8217;t wish that election system on my worst enemy.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s certainly no conincidence that Louisiana did not have its first popularly-elected Republican US senator&#8211; David Vitter&#8211; until 2004.</p>
<p>Unless one candidate gets 50%-plus in the first round, the top two candidates in Louisiana are required to conduct TWO general election campaigns; this discourages candidates from running.  In recent years, two former governors &#8220;tested the waters&#8221; but decided not to run.  If Louisiana had had party primaries, they likely WOULD have run.</p>
<p>For a member of a small party to favor the &#8220;top two open primary&#8221; would be like a chicken handing Colonel Sanders a hatchet and inviting him into the henhouse.</p>
<p>Under California&#8217;s Prop. 14, of course, the top two vote-getters would ALWAYS have to conduct TWO general election campaigns.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Rankin</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2010/03/08/california-fight-on-whether-prop-14-ballot-title-should-include-greater-participation-in-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-786531</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Rankin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 02:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=11066#comment-786531</guid>
		<description>#18:  The 1801 and 1824 elections, of course, were decided by the US House.  And the 1876 election was decided by a special commission.

You could say that Mississippi and Vermont, in certain circumstances, have a &quot;top two&quot; for statewide constitutional offices, with the state legislature making the final decision.

And, when no candidate gets 50%-plus in Georgia&#039;s general election, the top two meet in a popular runoff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#18:  The 1801 and 1824 elections, of course, were decided by the US House.  And the 1876 election was decided by a special commission.</p>
<p>You could say that Mississippi and Vermont, in certain circumstances, have a &#8220;top two&#8221; for statewide constitutional offices, with the state legislature making the final decision.</p>
<p>And, when no candidate gets 50%-plus in Georgia&#8217;s general election, the top two meet in a popular runoff.</p>
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		<title>By: Demo Rep</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2010/03/08/california-fight-on-whether-prop-14-ballot-title-should-include-greater-participation-in-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-786495</link>
		<dc:creator>Demo Rep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 20:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=11066#comment-786495</guid>
		<description>P.R. and A.V.

NO MORON primaries are needed.

ALL the primary stuff from the past is about as useful as a record of all the wars of the EVIL kings in the rotten EVIL past.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.R. and A.V.</p>
<p>NO MORON primaries are needed.</p>
<p>ALL the primary stuff from the past is about as useful as a record of all the wars of the EVIL kings in the rotten EVIL past.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Riley</title>
		<link>http://www.ballot-access.org/2010/03/08/california-fight-on-whether-prop-14-ballot-title-should-include-greater-participation-in-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-786452</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 05:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ballot-access.org/?p=11066#comment-786452</guid>
		<description>#16 IOW, Top 2 facilitated the Republican rise to power in Louisiana, and might do the same for now-minor parties in California.  Instead of simply trying to maintain their qualification from election to election, they were forced to compete for votes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#16 IOW, Top 2 facilitated the Republican rise to power in Louisiana, and might do the same for now-minor parties in California.  Instead of simply trying to maintain their qualification from election to election, they were forced to compete for votes.</p>
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